Remembering Joan Donna Griffith 25 Years After September 11 with Peter L. Griffith

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Description

This year marks 25 years since September 11, 2001. For Paula and her family, the anniversary brings an intensely personal loss into focus, along with the many milestones and ordinary moments they wish her mother, Joan Donna Griffith, had been here to experience.

Joan was brilliant, funny, stylish, loving, an avid reader, a dedicated professional, a mentor, a wife, and the mother who raised Paula. She shaped how Paula shows up in the world, what she values, how she cares for others, and so much of the personal brand she has built.

In this special rerelease of Branding Room Only, Paula revisits a conversation with her father, Peter L. Griffith, about Joan, the life their family shared with her, the grief that followed September 11, and the legacy she continues to leave. This conversation honors Joan Donna Griffith for the fullness of how she lived, not only the way she died.

3:04 - How immigrating to the U.S. shaped Peter’s experience in junior high and high school

10:37 - Peter’s early career experiences and what he learned about race, opportunity, and expectations

16:22 - How Peter met Joan and what it took to build a family together

24:38 - Stories from Peter and Joan’s early years together and the love that shaped their marriage

30:19 - Joan’s love of reading and how the family changed when Paula’s younger sister was born

36:32 - The 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the role Joan played in keeping Paula connected while she was away at boarding school

40:16 - How Joan showed up at home and at work and the standards she passed on to Paula

43:47 - The music, photos, and home videos that captured so many everyday family memories

48:55 - Joan’s dreams, her work ethic, and the impact she had on the people she worked with

55:10 - How Paula and Peter learned about the September 11 attacks and what they remember from those first hours

1:03:06 - How their family began navigating the shock and grief that followed

1:11:09 - Memories from the final weeks with Joan and the “last piece of love” she gave Paula that August

1:19:39 - Remembering Joan through her memorial and the day Paula and Peter retrieved her purse in Lower Manhattan

1:24:30 - What it was like to grieve such a personal loss so publicly

1:34:18 - How Joan’s values continue to shape Paula, her family, and the generations that came after her

Mentioned In Remembering Joan Donna Griffith 25 Years After September 11 with Peter L. Griffith

A Tribute to My Mother Joan Donna Griffith

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This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC empowers individuals and organizations to lead with purpose, presence, and impact. Specializing in leadership development and personal branding, we offer keynotes, custom programming, consulting, and strategic advising—all designed to elevate influence and performance at every level.

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Transcript

Paula Edgar: Welcome to Branding Room Only, the podcast where your personal brand gets a front row seat. I'm Paula Edgar and if you're here, it's because you know your brand isn't just about what you do. It's about how people experience you. In each episode, you'll hear stories, strategies and lessons from leaders and influencers who built their brands and made their mark. And I'll share the tools you need to do the same. Let's go. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Branding Room Only. I'm your host, Paula Edgar. Every year, as September 11th approaches, I take special time to honor and remember my mother, Joan Donna Griffith, who was killed in the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. This year carries a different emotional weight, because we are commemorating 25 years since that day. 25 years is a significant amount of time and yet grief has a way of collapsing time. There are moments when it feels like an entire lifetime has passed and others when the memories feel so close that I can hear my mother's voice, picture her smile and remember exactly how it felt to be loved and cared for by her. For many people, my mother is connected to the way she died, but that's not the entirety of her story. She was brilliant, funny, stylish, loving, an avid reader, a dedicated professional, a mentor, a wife, and the mother who raised me. She shaped how I show up in the world, what I value, how I care for others and so much of the personal brand that I have built. In this special re-release, I'm sharing a conversation with my father, Peter L. Griffith, about our family, the life he and my mother built together and the woman she was before September 11th made her one of the nearly 3,000 people we collectively remember as victims. As you listen, I hope you'll remember her by her name, Joan Donna Griffith. I hope you will hear her humanity, understand the impact she had on the people who loved her and perhaps take a moment to think about the lives and stories behind every name we commemorate on 9-11. Now, here's a conversation with my dad. Paula Edgar: Hi everybody, it's Paula Edgar, host of Branding Room Only. And I'm excited today to be doing a special episode of the podcast, featuring one of the people who has shaped my brand and had me become an influencer and influence my life. And I'm so excited to be talking to my father, Peter L. Griffith, on today's podcast. Daddy, introduce yourself to the Branding Room Only audience. Peter L. Griffith: Hello, everyone. My name is Peter L. Griffith. I was born in Barbados. I came to the United States when I was 14 years old. And it's a long story. By the way, the book won't be out for a while, but… Paula Edgar: Yeah, that'll be the next episode. So where did you come to, when you got off the plane from Barbados? Peter L. Griffith: So coming into coming into JFK, dressed up in a jacket and a tie and slacks and looking out the window and seeing the swimming pools, because the plane, I guess, came over Long Island and seeing the blue of the swimming pools and all the backyards and stuff, you know, I was finally in America, you know, the great country. And it was a wonderful sight. It didn't match the house that I ended up going to in what was then Ocean Hill, Brownsville, I think that was what it was called, on Chauncey Street, 634 Chauncey Street, to be exact. The first thing that hit me was the smell of the house. It smelled and I had never experienced a smell like that before, because it was just, it was different than what I expected. Well, not what I expected, but what I was accustomed to in the Caribbean. Paula Edgar: So just for the audience's sake, the address that Daddy just gave was in Brooklyn, which is I think the most important part of this, which is the best borough. You all know that I am not at all shy about the fact that I love Brooklyn and it's my favorite borough. Growing up in Brooklyn as a teenager, you then went to high school in East New York? Peter L. Griffith: No, I went to Junior High School first. Oh, right. I've been to Junior High School, Junior High School, IS 271, John M. Herkimer High School, John M. Coleman, I think, High School on Herkimer Street in Ocean Hill, Brownsville is what they called it then. Paula Edgar: Okay. Okay. All right. Then? Peter L. Griffith: I graduated from Junior High, which was a horrendous experience for a Barbadian kid with a very thick accent who was brought up in schools that required you to raise your hand, when you wanted to speak. And you had to call the teacher, sir and ma'am and stuff like that. And then go into a Junior High School, where everybody, where it seems like chaos because the kids were just wild. But that was a pretty horrific experience for me. You know, kids can be very mean, especially when you're different. And I was very different. So even Junior High school, high school was a dream. The kids were more civilized. And I met a lot of other kids who were from the West Indies also. And I no longer felt alone, because I felt very alone in junior high school because the people, I guess, who were West Indians weren't identifying themselves as West Indians. Paula Edgar: But it's interesting, because when you think about and I always try to tie things back on the podcast to what your brand is and to think about how popular the Caribbean experience is now, versus back then when it was, you know, you were just in another group of immigrants that were coming into this country and having an accent and being different was not necessarily cherished in the way it is now. Peter L. Griffith: No, it wasn't, because the kids told me that we were taking their jobs. I didn't really understand that because my mother worked as a maid. I didn't understand that at all, but you know, it is what it is. It was difficult. Paula Edgar: Okay, so then high school? Peter L. Griffith: High school was, like I said, high school was a dream. In high school, I found, well, I found myself in junior high school, because I started to blossom as a student, something which I was not good at in Barbados. I was really, I would say that I was a C-minus student in Barbados. And I came into junior high school and found myself doing A work. I think they put me back a grade, which was the best thing they probably could have done for me. And that, I mean, I was unbelievable in high school, in junior high school. And when I think about my experience in high school, it was wonderful. It was fun. After my first semester, I had like 86 or 87 average. And they asked me if I wanted to join a special program for kids that were doing well. And that's how I joined what was then called College Discovery. And that was really an experience because that meant that I wasn't, I was then with kids who were really interested in learning all the time. We had double periods of math and English. And I think I did pretty well in high school, only failing one class. And I blamed a young lady whose name is Jacqueline Isaacs. I don't know where she is now, but… Paula Edgar: Calling people's name out, but... Peter L. Griffith: I'm sorry. Paula Edgar: Poor Jacqueline. Peter L. Griffith: I blame her, because we were sitting in the back of the class and I talked to her a lot and I failed the regents, but they could have passed me in the class and they didn't. So that was the only class I failed in high school. Paula Edgar: This is an interesting revelation, because I definitely know that there were times when I was young where I was told that I should not be talking to the back of class and I should be focusing, but that's a whole nother story. I'll talk about that in therapy. Anyway, so then as you progressed through high school and the interesting piece about you saying that you were in this college discovery is that given what the Supreme Court has done recently, that probably would have been considered a program that was a pipeline program leading into college to bring inner city people of color, but that’s, you know… Peter L. Griffith: Basically, it was. Basically it was. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Peter L. Griffith: The interesting thing about it was that, you know, they gave us a foundation, but the foundation was not good, because when I got to Brooklyn College, am I allowed to say Brooklyn College? Paula Edgar: Of course you're allowed to say Brooklyn College. Peter L. Griffith: When I got to Brooklyn College, I was totally overmatched, because the kids that were there knew a whole lot more about lots of different things that I didn't get it. I wasn't exposed to in high school. But, you know, I dragged myself through college and thankfully I graduated. So, Paula Edgar: I mean, I guess we must say… Peter L. Griffith: … with a degree in history, with a mind in education. OK. Paula Edgar: All right. Relax. So, you know, there was a milestone that we skipped, which is me. So, everybody, a little preface for what you should and shouldn't do in high school, is that in the meantime, in the between time, I was born. So. Peter L. Griffith: 77… Paula Edgar: You don't have to talk about the years, relax. Peter L. Griffith: February 14th. Can I do that? Paula Edgar: There you go. There you go. Valentine's baby. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Yes. Yes. It was… It was one of the best moments of my life. Yeah. Paula Edgar: Aw, Daddy. Peter L. Griffith: Yeah. Paula Edgar: For those of you who have not sort of checked into my background, or have even heard me talk about how I was raised, et cetera, that you should know that my biological mother, obviously, who gave birth to me was who we're talking about, who my father was with at that time in high school. And then we'll move on to talk about who raised me. And I think that's the crux of what I wanted to get to, in terms of this story. So let's fast forward a little bit. So you then had a young child that you had to take care of and then you had to go to work. Peter L. Griffith: My mother had told me that as long as I was in college, she would take care of me in terms of, you know, what my needs and all of a sudden here I am with a pregnant girlfriend and I had to go to work and that was a horrible experience. And I say horrible, in terms of, I should not have been working. I should have been just concentrating on school, but I had to go to work and work was… I first worked in a factory, you know, you are just trying to find any job you can. I worked in a factory, of course, it was horrible. And then I got a job working at a law firm as a clerk and a messenger and stuff like that. And that was, I got to see a side of people who were different from me and look down on me because of my color. The thing was that I was raised that you are not better than me. And although they might have been lawyers, I didn't care. I was still Loretta's son. Paula Edgar: Okay. Yeah, side note on that one, because I think about, again, bringing it back to branding and being better or not than other people. And in thinking that way, I remember how important it was for my grandmother, Loretta, who you just mentioned, that we dressed a certain way. Right and I… that's been a straight line for the most part of my entire life, because I think that baton was also carried by my mommy and we're going to get in talking about her in a minute. Peter L. Griffith: Can I interrupt you and say this? Paula Edgar: Yeah please. Peter L. Griffith: My mother Loretta. It's interesting that somebody told me, looking at her pictures online, you remind them so much of her and how she dressed. And I was like, yeah. But I mean, she made sure that you had great, great clothes. And it was just amazing. But she did a lot, in terms of helping to raise you, obviously, because I couldn't provide for you the way that I would have liked to. And she really assisted, in terms of making sure that you were well dressed and looking spectacular. Paula Edgar: Yeah, you know, obviously I was young, because she's my grandma, but I was young and I remember her doing two things. One, baking and cooking. And the other one was like making sure that I looked like, I remember her like fixing me. And so I had the experience of that sort of Barbados side of my family, when I was growing up. But it's interesting, because as I progress later on, my Jamaican side, which I, you know, both my biological mother and mommy, who we'll talk about in a minute, are both Jamaican. And so that is a very much huge part of the culture that I was cultured in, even though I only went to visit Jamaica when I turned 40. And so, but we'll talk about that a little bit more. So, okay. So now you've worked at the law firm and again, because your daughter's a lawyer. They're not better than you now. Anyway… Peter L. Griffith: It's funny that I… when I left high school, well, when you gave out the information in school about high school, about what you wanted to be, my high school yearbook said I wanted to be a lawyer. It's something that I seriously considered. But, you know, low expectations are a horrible thing to have. And you know, I wanted that, but I didn't have a road map. I didn't have somebody to explain to me what it was going to be like. And the difference in my life and yours is that you had me and mommy who had a road map and who would say these are the opportunities that could be available to you and. I didn't and needed to need it in a sense that mommy. And I think that's one of the reasons why you were poured into the way you were, because especially the fact that you went to Deerfield, that was us pouring into ourselves in a sense, because we both would have liked to have had that kind of experience, which is why having you go there was such a proud moment for us. I mean, it killed me, in terms of how much it cost, but I look back on it now, I look back on the bills that they sent asking for their money. But I think the money was well spent. I mean, I could not have I could not have expected that you would become the person you were when you left Deerfield, because as I go to Deerfield and hear them talk about you, we would look at each other like this, Paula, because, you know, we know what you were like at home and you were not like that at Deerfield at all. You were unbelievable. Everybody seemed to love you. And they were like, oh, Paula is this and Paula is… who you are now is who you were becoming at Deerfield. I mean, that's just blooming like and I mean, just to see the woman that you were becoming, I mean, we just absolutely loved that. Of course, I must say this, that our goal in life was to get you and Joann out of the house so we could have the house to ourselves, but that's beside the point. Paula Edgar: Well, now I've been taking again that baton, because we've got… now my husband and we have one kid out and we wait for the other kid to get out. I mean, we love them so much anyway. So you talked about and we'll skip around a little bit, but we started talking about mommy, but we haven't said who mommy is. And what I wanted to do is to kind of draw the continual line as to you worked at the law firm and then you worked where and then where did you meet mommy? Peter L. Griffith: OK, so I worked at Merrill Lynch, which was then Pierce Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith in 100 Broadway in Manhattan. And you want to know how I met her? Paula Edgar: Yes, but keep it for the public, please. Peter L. Griffith: So I was, we… the way how it was, the office I worked in, I could look down the hallway from where I was sitting and I could see into another office down there. And I saw her one day. And in fact, I actually saw her on the elevator and I was taken aback by, you know, her obvious good looks and physical qualities. Paula Edgar: You should have been a politician anyway. Peter L. Griffith: I think I, and I really, I mean, I liked her. She was just beaming. She was, you know, there was just something about her. And a couple of days after I saw her, we were both coming out the number four, the number five train at the Wall Street stop in the Wall Street. No, whatever the stop was near Wall Street. And as we came to the turnstile, I saw her and I said, hi, how are you? And she says, hi. I said, I'm Peter from Barbados. And she said, I'm Joan from Jamaica. Famous lines, you know. Listen, I never said I was the smoothest in the world, but I went out of my way and I spoke to her and I guess we walked, walked to work together. And that basically was it for the beginning of our relationship, you know, talking to each other or whatever. Paula Edgar: So fast forward a little bit more. So you both got married in 19… Peter L. Griffith: Before I do this, let me tell you what happened. Paula Edgar: Yeah, sure, okay. Peter L. Griffith: So I was seeing someone at the time. Paula Edgar: Okay. Peter L. Griffith: And who shall remain nameless. Paula Edgar: Good. Peter L. Griffith: I had a date one night and we used to work until nine o'clock at night. Back then there was a lot of overtime and stuff. And she worked late and we saw each other in the hallway. And I said to her, you know, would you like to go to dinner? And she said, sure. So we went to a place called the China Chalet on Broadway. And we sat down and we ate. And after that, we went over to Battery Park. And we walked around a little bit, you know and I said, can I kiss you? And she said, yes. So we kissed and I turned to her and I said, I'm sure you could do better than that. That was like a one or two. Paula Edgar: Oh God. Peter L. Griffith: So she did better than that. And it was, you know, from there, we were seeing each other, you know, a lot after that. Paula Edgar: Yeah. So fast forward, you get married and you get married in 1981… Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: September 5th and at that point I was three or four, four… Peter L. Griffith: Yeah. Paula Edgar: And so you then have a new wife. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. And I wasn't… a new wife who was, I think… Paula Edgar: 19. Peter L. Griffith: … She, yeah, she was 19. Paula Edgar: Yes. So a new young wife and I wasn't living with you yet. Peter L. Griffith: No. Paula Edgar: And so, a little bit after that, let's… without going into all of the details, I then moved in with you. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: So that must've been easy. Peter L. Griffith: No, it wasn't. It was difficult, because, you know, her expectation was that she would have her husband and she would enjoy, you know, living without the thought of having a child anytime soon and, you know, go out and party and stuff. We weren't big party people, but, you know, having the ability to go where you want and stuff, that was all done. For me, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And I say that because I wanted to raise you. Because I knew that you were special from when you were younger. You were very conscious of a lot of stuff. You were very smart. And I just wanted you, I just felt that I could do a good job of raising you and making you the best version of you possible. Basically admitting me, but you know, it's beside the point. I wanted to give you the education that I had… you know, there was something inside me about education. And that was something that drove me. And I wanted to be able to give that to you. Not just the ABCs, but the, I mean, as somebody who studied history, I knew I could give you a well-rounded education about life as, growing up as a Black girl, a Black person in this country and stuff like that. And I wanted to do that. So it was for me a great thing, for her it wasn't so much. But when you love someone, you stretch yourself. And at some point, I don't know. I mean, obviously, she's not here to be able to say where that moment came, when the light went on with her. And it's just like, OK, this is Peter's child and we have to deal with this. And she just embraced you as her own. I mean, embrace you like, you know, the hug, you know, that big giant hug, you are mine now. And that was one of the best things that happened also, because then it wasn't… she was no longer your stepmother, then we told you that you couldn't call her Donna anymore, you had to call her mommy and just like that you started to call her mommy and that's mommy. Paula Edgar: That's funny, because I don't remember… I don't know. This is the first time I've heard you say that. I called her Donna, but I guess that makes sense. So just for everybody who's listening along to kind of pull this through. When I say mommy, that's who I'm referring to, because that's who my mommy's who raised me. So my mother, Joan Donna Griffith, is who my father married and in 81 and you know the fact that she was 19, as I got older and understood how young she was, I think was a helpful factor, in terms of us bonding, because, you know, she was very playful, right, she was very much like it felt seamless and easy. And I remember one of the memories that I have and I always tell my kids about this is how soft her hands were and that she would like lotion my legs and I would just sit back and be like oh this is like the best and without any knowledge of any other way of being, but I remember that. And when you think about like the things that your mother does, like hug you and your mother's touch and cooking and all those things, those are the the things that I remember. And I wanted to kind of bring us to this conversation, because mommy for us was pretty much everything. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: The audience and the folks who are listening and we'll see this later on, mostly only know who mommy is, because of what happened to her. Peter L. Griffith: Yeah. Paula Edgar: Right. And so we haven't gotten to that yet. But I want to kind of preface it in that one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you is, because many people have heard me… I talk about mommy all the time. But I wanted to have the opportunity for us to talk about who mommy was for us and to put a, not just story, but some depth to her legacy, right? And who she was and how she added value and left her mark and impact on the world. And that's so important. So we know how you met her. Tell me what some of the favorite memories you had of those early days. A couple will be good. What comes up for you? Peter L. Griffith: I think just the fact that she was smart. She was really, really intelligent and she was an avid reader. And we spent many hours together reading. I read my science fiction, she read her romance novels. We had really good times. Having a four-year-old means that there's lots of stuff you can't do. But I think the extended family of Juliet and Phyllis, who are her sisters you know, they made it easy, because we could always take you over there and they could always babysit. And when they want to go out, they can always bring their kids to us. And there was always that sense that there were all these people around. It was always a family family situation. But specifically, we went camping, remember, just one particular time, just me and her. And we were new to camping and we went to a place called Uncle Pete's in the… I think in the Adirondacks near Kingston, New York. And we got up there in my little orange Toyota Celica. I know you remember that car. Paula Edgar: Yes. Peter L. Griffith: And we went up there and we had this little tent, wasn't very big and it was pouring. And we found some place that was nice and dry and we set the tent up and everything. This is the first time I think we'd ever really gone camping. And it rained like crazy. And it rained to the point where it was seeping into the tent, under the tent. We were wet, got up in the middle of the night and went in the car and slept. I mean, the next morning we were like, okay, it's time to go home, because this is it. And we drove into Kingston and we found a laundromat. Drove back to the site and got the tent and the stuff. I took it to the laundromat and washed it. I went back and found a dry place and had a really great time. I mean, one of the things about her is that she was very affectionate and loving. I mean, since I'm an affectionate person, we were perfect for each other in that way. You know, we were always hugging on each other, always dancing together and, you know, just touching each other. You know, it was nothing to be in the kitchen kissing each other and having people tell you to get a room, you know. Paula Edgar: Yes. Yes. You know, I'll take a pause there because I, you know, I grew up in East New York, Brooklyn. That's where we lived for, you know, most of my childhood. And a lot of my friends didn't have a family unit that was together, you know, a husband and a wife. And so my friends would come over and be like, A, oh my goodness, your dad's there. And then B, you know, you all would be hugging all over each other, et cetera. And I think that for so many of my friends, you were their family unit too, right? It wasn't just me understanding that that's who you all were, but them. And, you know, having that structure, whether, you know, sort of adopted or not in that space, was helpful to so many people to see what they want to strive for. I knew, from when I was very young, that that's a family unit that I wanted. I did not want, you know, I mean, obviously, people don't necessarily want to have such, you know, fractured family units, but I wanted to have something similar to what you all had. Peter L. Griffith: And I mean, to the point, you also had Julia and Phyllis who also had you know, a male in the home also. So it was something that you saw as a normal. It's not an abnormal thing. So it was never something that was, I mean, it was something you talked about, but it was just, it was just how it was. And to us taking showers together and just being… Paula Edgar: All right, okay. All right, daddy. Okay. Oh, goodness. Anyway. So I want to take a quick sidestep. So mommy was from Jamaica. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, she came to the United States, I think when she was, I'm not even sure how old she was, but I know she went to elementary school. And I think she graduated a year early from Rasmus. I think she went to another high school, but she went to Rasmus for her last year and was able to come out, I think a year early or six months early or something like that. And then she went to Florida State. And she was there, I think, for two years when she got ill. She developed Bell's palsy. And that's how come she was back in New York. She came to New York for treatment. And while she was here, she got a job. She had a boyfriend in Florida. You know, she and I, when I came around, he was gone. You know what I'm saying? Paula Edgar: Okay. All right. Anyway, this is like turning into a Dynasty episode, but anyway, okay. Peter L. Griffith: I'm sorry. Paula Edgar: So I wanted to just make sure that we made that connection, in terms of where she'd come from. And Mommy has three sisters and two brothers, Calvin and Junior. And we talked about Ruth, Juliet and Phyllis. And then they all have a myriad of my cousins who are peppering the world. Because, you know, if we did this and did not mention them, we would be in trouble. So I don't want to be in trouble. And I hope to be able to do a podcast with my aunts as well at some point. Peter L. Griffith: That would be great. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Okay. So we talked about some of our favorite memories and I guess I'll share a couple as well. I'm glad you mentioned that my mommy loved to read, because I lament the fact that now we can read on devices, because my kids don't actually see me holding a lot of books, although I do read a lot as well. But I was just this past weekend at Grand Army Plaza at the library and it brought back all of these memories. I mean, I was there to see the Jay-Z exhibit, but that's another story. But it brought back all these memories of when we used to go there and mommy would just pack tote bags full of those Harlequin romances and other romance novels. And she read so, so much. Like I would see her with a book all the time. And both of you, to your point about being avid readers, it instilled upon me that reading was something that I had to do, because there would just be times where all of us would be in a room reading. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: Yeah. And the other thing is museums and sort of love of like the places we were. We did New York stuff. Right. Which is and I think I realized that I don't necessarily do as much New York stuff and I didn't do as much New York stuff with my kids, because they have opportunities to go other places. Right. But we didn't, you know, we weren't like, you know, affluent. But we did do a lot of things that were New York focused. And then when I was eight, along came my sister. And Joann was born. And so then we had a family structure that was different than, you know, I had you both to myself. And then we had, you know, my sister. And that shifted a lot for us, in terms of our family unit. So a little bit about that. Peter L. Griffith: It obviously creates a different dynamic, because now the focus is no longer on you. You know, the focus is on her and you know, she was in the hospital, because she was… she's born two pounds, six ounces. Paula Edgar: Eight ounces. Peter L. Griffith: Okay. Two pounds… Paula Edgar: You're welcome. Peter L. Griffith: She was in the hospital for a couple of months and that was hard on mommy, because she would go there every day and feed her with a little syringe or whatever. And she would come home and sometimes she would cry about it, because, you know, her baby was in the hospital and then she came home and everything changed, because now the focus, like I said, was no longer on you. But by then you were old enough to, you know, I guess to understand that, you know, now you have a little sister to play with or whatever, which I don't think you particularly liked. But, you know, you know, kids are funny at that age, because especially when everything is about them and now the focus is on something else. Paula Edgar: Yes, yes, definitely. I remember the shift. But it was interesting, because I think at least and again, I'm thinking of it from obviously my perspective as a young kid. But I felt like for mommy, it felt like the unit was more whole, because… right. Because then you both had a child of your own as right. And but to that end, I never in my entire life felt as if I wasn't her child. Like it was very much like we did Girl Scouts together. We did all of these things that we did. And it was never in my mind any question that I can remember. Peter L. Griffith: To the fact that most of your cousins didn't know that you had a different mother. Paula Edgar: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. OK, so then I go away to boarding school. So I went to Deerfield Academy, which my father mentioned a little bit earlier, which is in Deerfield, Massachusetts, which is in Western Mass and it's a boarding school. So you're living there. And so I left when I was 14. And at that point… was it before? No, it was right after that. Then you all moved to New Jersey. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Yes. I think, I don't know what year you went to boarding school, but we came up here in 92. Paula Edgar: Yeah, I was 91 when I went to. Peter L. Griffith: We came up in 92. A lot of it was the neighborhood was really changing drastically. And mommy was like, you know, Joann is going to start school soon. Let's get out of here. And we, in a couple of months, moved up here. That was a big change for us. Now you're living in the suburbs and you have to worry about mowing the lawn and, you know, all kinds of different stuff. And it was difficult, because we were commuting every day from Willingboro, which is like, I think, 90 miles away from New York or something like that. Every day to New York, we would get up ridiculous hours in the morning and have to take the bus into the city. And that was, it was difficult because that drive was hard on your body. And, but I mean, it was something we decided we wanted to do. So it was, it wasn't a matter of we had to, it was a matter of we wanted to do this. So we did. Paula Edgar: So that commute is something that when I think about mommy reading books, that's what she would be getting her stock for the week and then would read books and then return them back. And she would read two or three books going up and coming back. Peter L. Griffith: Yeah, she tore those books up like crazy. She was an unbelievable reader. And the thing about it was she would not read anything else. She wouldn't read biography. She would not read it. And one of the things that people don't realize about these books is, these books, because there are a lot of, you know, a lot of romance, there's… a lot of them are set in Europe and different places and stuff. And that idea of going places in a book, she went lots of places and she knew lots of stuff, because she read these books. I mean, you can think that you don't gain anything from reading them, but just reading them brings you information that you will not have before about how people live, how you're supposed to do things. I mean, she knew a whole lot about a whole lot of stuff from reading these books. Paula Edgar: And I mean, I'm sure that that was most of what I saw, but in terms of the knowledge point, she also watched a lot of musicals. She ingested a lot of information in a lot of different ways. And a part of what I remember a lot is how we loved Mary Poppins. We loved a lot of the musicals, because that's what we would sit and watch together, when I was a kid and when I was older as well, too. So I'm thinking about when I was away at boarding school in 1993, mommy and you all were still commuting to and from New York City, you know, lower Manhattan to Willingboro, New Jersey. And I remember when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993, that I remember being pulled out of class and them saying that the towers had been bombed. And I remember being up until late that night and then calling and having a call with you all, because she had finally come home. And I remember her talking about going down the stairs or her back had hurt and all that stuff. But what I remember the most from that, was her saying that she was going to go back. It wasn't at night, but it was after that. Like, I remember being like, OK, well, they're bombing stuff, so let's not go there. But I remember specifically having a conversation with her saying that she was going to go back. And so tell me about how that was on the adult side when all that happened. Peter L. Griffith: Well. To tell you the truth, I don't remember much about it. It was just like a blip, a blip in our lives. I know, you know, coming down all those stairs and stuff was difficult for her, but beyond that, it wasn't any… we didn't really have a conversation about whether she was going to go back or not. At least I don't remember. And I need you to understand that there's a lot of stuff I don't remember, because there've been a lot of… since, obviously, September 11th, there's been a lot of brain trauma and, you know and there's a lot of memories that I really don't have anymore. Paula Edgar: Let's just tell the truth. Also, that mommy and I talk together every day and I would… Peter L. Griffith: Daddy would get a call when the car window wouldn't go down. Otherwise, daddy wouldn't hear from you. Mommy would come home and say, yeah, I sent her some money today. And I mean, the thing about it is just like whatever she did with you, she would come home and tell me I did this or I did that or whatever, whatever. So we knew what was going on, in terms of how things were going with you and how she might have been helping you or whatever, which has always been a big focus in her life, you know. Paula Edgar: Yeah, my mother, you know, back in those days that, you know, you had to pay per minute when you had calls and long distance, et cetera. So, but at her job and mommy worked at Fiduciary Trust and the World Trade Center, she had an 800 number. So I… and I was in boarding school, so I would literally call her every day and they would put me on hold and go find her. And I love that. And she'd be like, what do you want? I'm like, just to say hi. But we would talk and she would tell me what's going on with the family. And, you know, she was really like my lifeline to what was happening otherwise, because, you know, that was before email and social media and all that stuff. So I didn't really know other than those calls. And so what I remember about that time was feeling super disconnected, because something had happened, but the person who would be telling me about it normally was in it. And so, and that fear that I had, because it had happened there and you know, terrorism was something that happened in other countries, right? It wasn't anything that we worried about. We worried about like local crime as opposed to, you know, crime that was… Peter L. Griffith: [inaudible 00:40:01]. Paula Edgar: Exactly. So, well, let's talk a little bit more about, there's one question that I think that I wanted to hear your thoughts about. We kind of talked about how she was as a mother. I don't know if you want to add anything else about her as a mother for me and Joann, et cetera, just generally. Peter L. Griffith: Let's talk about you for a moment… Paula Edgar: Okay. Peter L. Griffith: … and the fact that you wouldn't get up in the morning unless you had hot chocolate. And the hot chocolate was brought to you… I think then you had, we had bunk beds and you would get your hot chocolate with your eyes closed and you would drink the hot chocolate. You would not get up unless you had the hot chocolate. Who, you know, you do what you have to do in order to get your kids going. And we did what we had to do. I mean, she was just… she was just so wonderful, in terms of how she took care of you and took care of Joann and, you know, made sure everything was okay with the two of you and, you know. She was a wonderful person, a wonderful mother. Paula Edgar: Yes. And she could cook. I mean, I think about like the full package of a wife in the traditional roles, like she worked and she commuted and she cooked and she cleaned. Oh, my goodness. Peter L. Griffith: She would come home and have a meal ready in like 40 minutes or something. And she could, I mean, you know, I would talk to her about this stuff. She could take a recipe and know what to substitute for what she didn't have or whatever. I couldn't understand a lot of that stuff, how she did this, how she knew what to substitute out of, but she was really good at cooking and baking and stuff like that. She was really a well-rounded person. Paula Edgar: Yes. And, you know, to kind of tie into what I was talking about with my grandmother, she also, my mother was very much a dresser. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: And when I think about how, you know, I tell my kids that, you know, walk outside, looking a certain way. Right. And that when I'm going to do something, I'm speaking, et cetera, that I know that I have to look a certain way. That was a direct connection to how mommy raised me. Right. Whether or not I rebelled it at some point, because we know that I did. I understood and knew what the parameters were. And it's a part of how I built my brand around particularly having a knowledge and understanding of how to show up. Peter L. Griffith: You are not going outside like that. No. Come back. Come back. Paula Edgar: There were a lot of comebacks. There was a lot of come back, especially when we lived in Brooklyn. But it's OK. Actually, one anecdote that I remember, speaking of dressing, was that when I went to Deerfield, you know, I was this kid from East New York, right? But I had, I think we had, you know, the lower part of middle class, lower part of middle class… Peter L. Griffith: Yeah, yeah, okay. Paula Edgar: … but we showed up as middle and up, right? And so my mother was like, you have to have penny loafers. And I was just like, you have to have penny loafers, in order to go to boarding school because that's what they have. And then, you know, people say you put pennies inside the penny loafers. But she, I remember she was like, well, we'll put two dimes in there, because so you remember your value. And I was like, why are we putting coins in these shoes? But when I think about it now, it was like you set a standard, right? Like that I was going to be in this place, where folks had more resources, knew more, right? But they were not better than me, right? Peter L. Griffith: Yes, yes. Paula Edgar: So that same kind of connection that you talked about before. So I wanted to sort of share that, because there's a lot of lessons that I learned, when you talk about shaping who I am. And that's even being here, right here now, is because of the values and the lessons and the things that mommy taught me and that I experienced with both of you as my parents. So let's talk about some of the, you know, we talked about her reading, but songs that she loved. Peter L. Griffith: I mean, the thing about her is she loved music from the sixties. You know, we both had love for like Beach Boys music, Beatles music. I mean, just… and singing around the house, you know, singing out loud and just, you know, just enjoying the atmosphere in the house, because I played a lot of music. And because of that, we always had what they say, the soundtrack of our lives. And, you know and it was really something, because after she died, I realized how much the music meant to our relationship. And it was hard for me to deal with that, because I did a lot of crying at my desk at work hearing music that touched me, because it was music that we shared together. There's some music now that I'm still not comfortable listening to, because it was very special to her and special to me. And she was just, like I said, a wonderful wife. And even better than that, she was a really good friend, she was a really good friend. I mean, when you have somebody who is as smart as you are, you can't come with bullshit. You have to come. I mean, she was… she had that kind of brain where she can take something and break it down and know what to do with it. She was in many ways a lot smarter than I was. But, you know, that’s mommy. Paula Edgar: Yeah. When I think about, you know, growing up, the music was a big, big piece of it. And the one song that comes up whenever I think about her song, as opposed to a musical, is Rainy Days and Mondays. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Yes. There was something about that, I think, when she was younger. I don't remember the story behind it, but that song meant a whole lot to her, because I think it's a song that, as she might've heard or it did something to her. I think she did a lot of cleaning on Saturday mornings to that music. And I mean, she was younger. And so it was something she always liked to hear, because it made her feel good. Paula Edgar: Yeah, I remember her singing it out loud. And it's interesting, because now I hear that song and I'm like, but it doesn't have the connection other than to her, right? It's not like I don't have whatever the deeper piece is. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, yes. Paula Edgar: But there was definitely a lot of music played out loud when I grew up. The other thing that you used to do all the time was to have the… there's a lot of video of our lives. And this was like before there was terabyte mini chips, it was actually video, like VHS tapes that you would just have the VCR running. And because of that and I'm grateful for that as being part of who you are, that there's a lot of just videos of us being us. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, yes, yes. I mean, you know, one of the things is, because I'm a photographer, you know and you get memories from looking at pictures. And one I have in particular is us going to the beach to fly a kite, you know and it's like the things I wanted for you, the things that I had when I was growing up and I mean, we did stuff that I would have wanted to do, or I did, when I was young. And that was one of the memories that really, I mean, she didn't have to come, but you know, if we were going someplace and that's another thing too, we were always together. We were together a lot, which is when I think about the fact that we were together for 20 years and what, five days or six days. We spent a lot more time than that together. I mean, you can say it's 20 years, but it was a hell of a lot more than that, because it was packed into those 20 years that we spent together. Paula Edgar: Gosh, I just thought about the kites. I can see the pictures and I don't want to run over that point, because when we are thinking about… I started off saying that you were instrumental on building my brand, because you were. But one of the things I'm very serious about is photos, is pictures and how they are framed and how they're structured and how people look in them. And I would say a little bit more than serious about it. I'm a little bit obsessed to my kids who do not want to take pictures and I don't care and I'm going to make them take pictures. But I've been documenting my entire life. I have pictures from when I was a baby all the way. And a lot of people can't say that. And to think about how technology has shifted during that time, that you still, number one, understood the importance of documenting. I look back at those pictures and I think how lucky I am to be able to see them and know throughout those times that we, you know, that it was important for you to do. And that is something that I directly attribute to you having that love too, that high happy love as well, except that I use an Android phone as opposed to an actual camera. Peter L. Griffith: Okay. Paula Edgar: Anyway, I'll get to it at some point, being an actual camera person. Okay. So there was a lot in there to your point about it being packed. I want to, before we move on to talking about 9-11, when you think about some of the dreams and aspirations that mommy had, what comes up? Peter L. Griffith: I think she wanted to graduate college. I think that was a big thing for her. And she did go back. She went to Medgar Evers for a couple of semesters, but it's kind of tough having kids and trying to go to school at night and that was difficult obviously. She never did finish, because we moved up here and then that commute destroyed any chance of being able to go to school, because it was basically an hour and a half each way. But I think the big thing was that she wanted you and Joann to have a better life than she had, because I think her growing up was kind of rough. And I think she poured into you and into Joann the values that she grew up with and the values that we shared together, the values of value in education, value in family, value in fun, value in laughter, you know and reading and really understanding how important education was to your success. And that was a big, big deal for her. Paula Edgar: Every single time, you know, I know a fact, but every single time you remind me that mommy didn't graduate, I'm always like, what? I got shocked in my head, because education was such an important piece for her. And I remember you all, I was like a latchkey kid, you all going to school at night and going to college so that the point of you all making that effort, whether or not a degree came from it, for her, was solidified. I knew that I had to go to college. It was not a question as to whether I was going to be doing that or not. Peter L. Griffith: I think that was drilled into you from early. So there wasn't any choice about going to college, because it was always, if I couldn't achieve college, you had to pass me, in terms of what you did. And I'm very happy that you did. I mean, it was, that was like a big, big, big deal. Paula Edgar: Yeah. So let's talk about mommy at work, right? So this, other than my kind of connection where I met, I knew a lot of her coworkers, because I, again, I would call and they knew who I was and they would say how proud they were of the things that I was doing. So I knew that she talked about me a lot. And then I learned a lot from them after she died. But mommy would tell me also about the things that were happening at work. And I don't know how deeply, I should say she didn't really talk deeply about some of the challenges or anything like that. But I knew she was really proud of what she… and she took a lot of pride in showing up in her job. And so I'm going to ask you what you want to add about that. Peter L. Griffith: So you talk about the dressing. Casual corners was a store and I think it was in the World Trade Center. And she would come home with suits… Paula Edgar: And learners and Ann Taylor… Peter L. Griffith: She had a ton of suits and it spoke to how she wanted to show up, okay? So people saw her and they saw her, what they call dressed to the nine. She was always put together, because she could always, I mean, okay, this… and she would always look fantastic. I mean, going to church on Sunday morning, it was like, wow. I mean, she was just immaculate in the way she… and very purposeful, in the way how she put herself together and what she showed the world of who she was. Paula Edgar: A hundred percent. Peter L. Griffith: In terms of the work, she rose quickly in the company she was in, despite the fact she didn't have a degree. What she did have was a brain that was incredible. And she caught on to a lot of stuff that a lot of other people didn't. And I mean, at one point she was offered jobs by some of the companies that were servicing her company, because she knew the system as good as some of their engineers, because she was just that good. And she knew how to manipulate the system in ways that they didn't know was possible. And like I said, they offered a job, but you can't do that when… especially these are kind of job where you go someplace for six months or whatever, you can't do that when you have a little kid, so you know that avenue wasn’t open to her. But she was very proud of how far she's come in the company and I think she was always.a little mindful of the fact that she didn't have a degree to say, this is what I have. But she was something else, in terms of her ability and how she did her job. And I think what we saw at home, in terms of somebody who could manage the house and do these things that was taken to the job. And she did. She managed in a really wonderful way that her people absolutely loved her. And they cherished her, because she treated them really well. And in fact, a lot of them were very, very loyal to her, because she treated them and gave them an opportunity to grow. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The folks who she worked with, you know, a lot of the things that they said about her subsequently after she died was about how she mentored them and she cared about them personally, not just at work. And, you know, and I think that that kind of impact in the workplace, especially when you think about workplaces now where people don't stay for long times, or people leave, because the culture is terrible. You know, they say people don't leave places, they leave people. And until you have someone who really cares about you and your growth, you know, I really love that work ethic that I think to your point was home and work and work. And it was sort of seamless in that way. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. Paula Edgar: Okay, so let's talk about work and what happened on September 11th. So at this point, just so you both know where we were parallel in this space, daddy, you were working in Philadelphia, and I was living in California. That's another podcast for another day. So tell me, how did you find out about the attacks? Peter L. Griffith: So I was at work, we were in our little cubicles and I was sorting some papers, lots of them. And I think somebody passed and said, you know, something's going on at the World Trade Center or whatever. So I went into, well, we had a TV room, a room with a lot of computers and a TV in a corner. And I saw that one of the buildings was burning. And I went and I told my manager, I said, you know, one of the World Trade Center buildings is burning. And I got back to my desk and I was still doing the papers or whatever. And she called and she said that, you know, that it looks like a building, looks like a plane hit the building next to her. And she said she could see the fuselage and stuff down on the ground. And there was a lot of confusion and stuff. So anyhow, she said, if I remember correctly, she just said, okay, I'll talk to you later or whatever. Yeah, something along those lines. So I was back at my desk and my niece called me and she said, Donna's building is burning. I said, no, it's the other building. And she said, no, I'm on the roof of the building that I worked in. Because she worked uptown, she was looking downtown and she saw both buildings were burning. So Donna called me back. No, wait a minute. I might be wrong here. She called me back and she told me that there were people, the building was burning and she could see people jumping out of the building. And I said, get out. And that was the last I heard from her. Obviously, I don't know how far she got before the other plane hit the building. I don't like to think about what possibly could have happened to her, because that doesn't help me in any way, but I just know that when they said the building fell, I knew she couldn't make it down. I mean, she was on the 97th floor. And getting from the 97th floor, there's no way she could have gotten anywhere close to 40th floor by the time that plane hit. And I think it might've hit below the 97th floor. So that was it. And I just started crying. I was sitting at my desk and I was crying and I was still sorting papers. I was kind of like in shock, you know, still sorting papers and my manager and her manager came over and they basically got me up and told me to go home. And they got one of the other coworkers there, a guy named George and told him to go with me. They gave him a cab slip and he drove me and he came home with me. I mean, me and this guy was not the biggest buddy buddy, but here he is crossing me and I'm dying inside. I'm dying inside and I'm coming down 95 on…. in Philadelphia. And I remember going on to the Betsy Ross Bridge and there's all the fire there and you can see the gas coming out of the top of the, the flame coming out of the gas. And I remember that vividly and I remember getting home. He asked if I was going to be okay and I said, yeah and I went inside and the phone rang. And the person says, is Joan there and I was like, she's at work. And the person says, oh my God, it was our lawyer. We had an appointment that night to sign our wills. And I think I came in and I started cleaning, because I was in so much shock. I mean, I was just, you know, I knew she was dead. I mean, I knew she was gone. I could just feel it. And I was, it was like, I guess the first, the beginning of the shock of knowing that you know, we had just come back five days earlier from a cruise for our 20th anniversary. And she was so happy, because she went with her sister and the two of them, you know, like two peas in a pod. And they had a great time, you know, her sister and her husband. And we had a great time and everything. And here we are now. And it was funny, the night before, night before September 11th, I remember it as a Monday or Tuesday. She came, I think she was home and she got up and she put on some clothes and she went over to a friend of ours house, a friend of ours, named Ava. And she went over there and Ava told me later, it was very strange, because she never did this before, but she was like in her bedroom on her water bed and stuff, you know, and she was just having a good time or whatever. And then she came home and, you know, we went to sleep and I don't remember if I was up the next morning to see her off, because by then I was working in Philadelphia and I didn't have to leave home as early as she did. So I don't remember whether I saw her that morning or we just said bye and kissed or what. I don't remember any of that, but all I know is she was gone. Paula Edgar: I just realized that this is the first time that I've heard the breadth of that story from you. Like, I mean, obviously I know the pieces of it, but, yeah, so on the flip side, 3,000 miles away, I was in California. And at this point, I was living with an ex-boyfriend who definitely shall not be named. And we had gotten a big screen 60-inch TV the weekend before. So September 11th was a Tuesday. And we got that big screen TV. And so it was six o'clock in the morning came into the room and said, the World Trade Center just got hit by… And what was wild about the footage, was that it wasn't at all tempered. They were showing, you could see people jumping. It was just cameras on the buildings and you could hear the broadcasters just in shock as they were reporting and seeing these things. And then I remember calling that 800 number, that same number that had had my… and the lines were down. You could not, I was able to get through to you once. And when I talked to you and it was brief, you were crying. And I was like, okay, I'm going to call mommy. Like I was just, in my mind, I was like, all right, good. Well, this sucks, but I'm sure she's fine. Like I was again, that shock of it all. And I kept calling and I kept calling and I kept calling and I kept calling. And I went to work. Like I was home when that happened. And I was like, okay, I'm going to work. I get to work. And I remember sitting at my table, my cubicle, like similar to what you were saying and just, doing whatever I was doing on the computer, but then I would keep calling the number. I would keep calling the number as if she was going to answer. And then when the towers went down, people kept coming. I mean and I'll give a shout out here for two people. The company I worked at was Sage Software, which is Sage. I didn't have a lot of family, I didn't have family there in California, but I had friends and they made sure, they were like, go home, go home. And I was like, I can't go home, because at this point I was with this guy who I didn't really, like I didn't, I didn't really want to be with him anymore, but I was stubborn. Anyways, long story. So going home was not going to be helpful to me. So being there at work, I mean, my friends, you know, they bought me food. Like it was just, I felt well taken care of in this horrific time. And it was, what, two weeks or something like that before I was able to travel because, you know, they stopped flights and you couldn't fly. And I was not trying to be on a train across the country, because everybody was scared about everything at that point. We didn't know what was going to happen next. And then thankfully when the lines got… I was able to call and speak to you and Joann and obviously at that point my sister, she was 16 and in high school and so kind of our whole world flipped upside down and I don't want to let it go without saying who that lawyer was, who you were going to meet with, because she was such an instrumental part of us being OK. And I think really a catalyst for me thinking of even… about being a lawyer. And so shout out always to Angela Titus, who is one of the best state attorneys, wonderful people who I've ever met and is truly the embodiment of what you call a counselor, as opposed to just a lawyer. And having her to be able to have us help us navigate the whole process of not just the will, but also dealing with the compensation fund and all of that process. I don't know how we would have been able to really do it without having someone like her in that. Peter L. Griffith: Let me stop you there, okay? I was paralyzed. I was paralyzed. You know, losing someone who you are tied to I mean, tied to very tightly, because even at year 20, we were still very much in love with each other and losing her, it was like I was dead. And I say that Peter died in the World Trade Center with her. I was just numb. I mean, I think I was numb for quite a long time. And this is where giving you the education that you got and the values and the understanding about family and stuff like that, became very important, because what I could not do and I couldn't do a lot. And I admit that I was just numb. I would be at meetings and I would have no idea what's going on. And you were instrumental in holding my hand. And I said, you know, what would I have done without you? What would I have done if I didn't have a daughter who was able to come and say, OK, daddy, this is what's going to happen. Here's what this…. And the thing about it is I realized there's a lot of stuff that I never knew happened, because people kept things from me. And I, you know, I was glad that they did, because I was just not capable of doing anything. I was just so numb for such a long time. And I say, you say a shout out to Angela, but my niece, baby. Paula Edgar: Oh, yes. Of course. Of course. Peter L. Griffith: If not for her, I don't know what would happen to me, which is why I love her so dearly, because she made sure I was okay. She held my hand for a long time, because she had moved up here to stay with us, I think a couple of years before. And if she was not here, I don't know what would have happened. I mean, I probably would have scraped through, but not the way I did, because she was so instrumental in making sure I was OK. And you were great in handling the stuff. And, you know, I realized that you had a lot of grief just like I did, but you did something with your grief. You turned it into activism, in terms of our family. And I don't know how you dealt with a lot of the stuff externally, but I know that you threw yourself into taking care of me and making sure our family was okay. And it was a testament to, like I said, who you were and who you would become, that you were so strong when I was so weak, you know and I was so weak. It was a bad, bad time. But anyhow. Paula Edgar: Yeah, we, you know, when people say that mourning is not a straight line, mourning takes on all, you know, now 22 years later, I still miss my mother. Like it's not, it doesn't go away. It just, it happens in different waves, et cetera. But what I remember about that time and thinking about Baby is what we call her, but her name is Dina Codrington and that's my cousin and his niece, but they're similar in age. Long story, that's for chapter 17 of the novel. But she's very much someone who takes care of people. That's one of the things that I love the most about her, that if you are sick, she will make sure that you feel better. If you are hungry, you will never be hungry. And she is such a special person. And it’s why… and mommy loved her, right? And they loved each other. And so when I think about that time, you were, you know, when I think about daddy, like, it's kind of almost like you're like this… like over there kind of person who I loved, but very much deified. Like it's kind of like, I am the epitome of daddy's girl. Like that's, you know, we were down from the beginning. When I flew back, when I finally was able to fly back and again, the company I work for, they paid for my flight. Like I flew back and I remember the pilot saying, for those of you who are from New York, welcome home. And I like burst into tears. And by the time I got off the plane, I was like, I'm not going to cry anymore. I can't cry. I'm not going to do that. Right. But I didn't tell you I was coming, because I didn't want you to be scared that I was going to be in a plane. And when I got there, you were in the hospital, because you would have had a panic attack. And a really good friend of mine, James, who, again, I had met in California, he picked me up from the airport, drove me home and when I got home, Baby was like, he's in the hospital. And I came to the hospital, I remember walking into the hospital behind a curtain and I came out of the curtain and we just both collapsed into each other crying. And although I knew what was real at that point, it was really real then. Like, it was like, oh my gosh, she's gone. And while we understood, extended family didn't necessarily have that same realization, right? We had, you know, my aunts and stuff from Florida, had come to New York to search for mommy. You know, at that point, there were a lot of people who, you know, were in hospital, like folks found people and, you know, there were missing signs and all that. You know, we had, our family really coalesced to support each other at that time. But I think we both had the realization that she was gone. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, I think I mean, I definitely knew. But, you know, grief is an interesting thing. And you can't tell people how to grieve. And, you know, you went to different places looking, you know, but I knew she was gone. Paula Edgar: And one of the things, you know, as you mentioned, you both, you had celebrated your 20th anniversary the week before. And there's two things that I remember about that trip. One is that I like had, I finally had like a little bit of money because I had a job. And so I was like, I'm going to do something nice for them. Peter L. Griffith: Oh my God. Paula Edgar: And so that, you know, you were on a cruise and I had called to get balloons and a bottle of champagne and a cake. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. There was a sign that said happy anniversary in the room. We went there, too. I still have that. Yeah, I still have that. That was, you don’t know how proud mommy was of you. I mean, oh, my God. It was like Paula… she was just, you know. Paula Edgar: It was something she would have done. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: And so I remember thinking like, I'm going to do something. Peter L. Griffith: And as much money as she was giving you, I'm sure she was surprised you had enough money to do that. But she was very happy with that. Paula Edgar: Yeah, so right before then, so I had come to Jersey. I had seen you both in August of that year, because I'd come from California, because I was going to go to Caribana in Toronto. And I'm glad I had taken the trip, because I had the opportunity to spend some time with mommy in August and we had gone shopping. And it was one of the things that mommy and I used to do. She was like, don't tell daddy. We did this, but we had gone to, oh gosh and I'm going to forget the name of the department store, but we had opened up, she opened a card so we could get a discount, but we bought a bunch of clothes. And I had come there essentially with like two empty suitcases and they were full and actually bought a suitcase. And when I went to Carabana, I had all this stuff, because she had bought me this stuff. And that was not the first time she had done that. And thinking about having that chance to spend time with her, just she and I, before this all happened and before your anniversary, was something special that I remember. But one thing that was very different about that trip was that you'd gone on trips before, you'd always vacationed and done stuff, but it was never something where she would say like, other than here's where we're staying and here's the hotel or what the flight, she said, she wrote and I have this paper still, she wrote down the financial planner, Angela, the lawyer who I talked about, she wrote all that information down on a piece of paper and gave it to me. And, you know, reflecting back to think about like, I needed that information, because you were a mess and I was able to act on the information she had given me, which she had never done before. And it's almost like the universe, right? Like whatever deity is there understood that that had to happen, in order for us to be and I say, okay, with quotation marks, because we're still not okay, right? Like we're still impacted by mama being gone, but that it would have been so much more challenging if she hadn't… It was like that last piece of love to say, here's what you need to take care of this, because… Peter L. Griffith: Right, so let me say this to you. I don't know whether it was a holdover from the first bombing in the World Trade Center or what it was, but we talked about the fact that one of us was going to leave the other. We talked about… we knew that something was going to happen. I mean, we just feared and I wouldn't even say fear, we just knew it was something was going to happen. And a couple of months before that, that's when she went and got a lawyer and started working on the will. That's when we had gotten the financial advisor. It's like all these things are being put in place. Was it just something that was done? No, this is something that she said we needed to do, because this was important. And we went to the financial advisor and the financial advisor told us, because she makes a hell of a lot more money than you, we need to put more insurance on her. So when she died, we had that money, because she had set out to make sure that we would be okay, if something happened to her. And, you know, it's kind of like, I knew something was, she would come home late at night by private car from New York when she worked late. And I always disliked that, because I find myself at the window looking out for her whenever a car passed or something like that, because I was fearful that something was going to happen to her. And I didn't think that it was going to be like this. But, you know, you know, God in his infinite wisdom makes decisions that we don't really have the right to ask why, we just deal with it. I always say that if I complain about the fact that mommy was gone and she was taken, I would be doing a disservice to the 20 years that God gave me with her, because those 20 years were so wonderful. I mean, I had a really great life, really great. One child was gone, never to come home. And I had one that I was working on, but that was a bit challenging. You started saying to yourself, I don't think this one is ever going to leave home. But we were happy, we were so happy. I'm not going to say perfect, because we still had a lot of debt from sending you off to college, but we lived well. I mean, we didn't want for stuff. If we needed something, we got it. You know, we did well. And it was just sad that that was how it turned out. But, you know, like I said, I'm thankful for the 20 years and I'm thankful for what she brought to my life. One of the things I want to say also is that part of being married, because I was an only child for most of my life. My father had kids, my mother had a child before me. Part of my life was I was alone, so I was very selfish. I mean, everything was Peter. And when I got married, things were rough the first year or two until I made a decision that this is what I wanted. And I gave up being Peter and became part of Peter and Donna. And when that died and I say that, because that partnership died in the World Trade Center. And then I had to find myself again. And that was difficult, because you don't realize how much you give to a relationship until you don't even know what size shoe you wear. You don't know what, because you share memories and you share information. So she knew what size I was, all these things and now I have to relearn all these things, because she's not there. My brother was not there, because she was the CEO of this house. I was the owner, the owner of the company. So she would come to me and she would say, we doing so-and-so. And I would say, okay, because I knew that she was better at managing stuff than I was. So if she had an idea, we would talk about it and we would go with that. And I lost all of that. And then I had to try to build my life back and I mean, it was like starting to walk, you know, starting to, you know, walking on your knees before you can get up and try to just be. And I made lots of mistakes. And, you know, I don't regret the mistakes I made, because they're part and parcel of who I am right now. But I am like that person. But I'm not that person. And a lot of that, a lot of the stuff… and talk about crying. I mean, you know, you hear people talk about wailing and the amount of crying that I did would hurt my head. I mean, because I cried so… I couldn't believe that she was gone. I mean, I knew she was gone, but the pain of it, you know, just… and then there was the memorial. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Peter L. Griffith: You know, we decided that we needed to have a memorial. This was like in October, because there was no thought of her being found in a hospital someplace or someplace else. So we needed to have some closure on, on the agony that we were going through. So we set up a memorial and it was in the church. I used to go to the Second Baptist church in Morristown. And it was amazing. Sonia held my hand as we walked in. Paula Edgar: Sonia… Peter L. Griffith: … that's one of my cousins. And the place was filled with coworkers and it just filled, the church was filled with people to the point where there were people in the choir halls. Paula Edgar: Yes, the overflow, people outside… Peter L. Griffith: Yes, there were… like the CEO of my division. I mean, there were a lot of people in… It was just an amazing showing of people. And people came from all over, because she was very loved and it was… I mean, we have it on tape, but the sound is very bad. There's almost no sound. And I really wish that there was some way to be able to get that sound back. But I can remember you singing, just a spoonful of sugar could make the medicine go down. You know, you don't know how proud I am of you. You don't know. You know, it's like, there was a part I was looking at the other day, you holding Vicky's hand as she went up to read. I mean, the memories, you know? Paula Edgar: Yeah, I remember that day. I remember leading up to that day, because I had to really be who she trained me to be, in those times, because I had to lead. And the one thing that is hard about being a leader and I feel like I've always been a leader, but to be a leader in a space that I wasn't prepared to lead for, I shouldn't say that, because I was prepared for it. I didn't want to, but I knew I had to. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. Paula Edgar: It was us going to pick out the flowers at the florist and us… and you saying, you have to get sunflowers. And I was, and I remember sitting there being like, I don't know what flowers she would want. Like, daddy has to know what flowers she wants, because I don't know what flowers she would want. And in little things and I remember and I'm kind of jumping around a little bit, but months after 9-11, it might have been a year, they found her purse. They found my mother's purse and we had to go into Lower Manhattan. Peter L. Griffith: Oh my God. Paula Edgar: The one police plaza. Peter L. Griffith: No, the municipal building. Paula Edgar: Whatever, I remember going downstairs. Yes, it was by the, okay, yes, I know what you're talking about. But we had to go downstairs and it was like this, it was like we were in a movie, like this dank place, you had to go through this window and you had to give this number, because every victim of 9-11 had a number. And then they gave us a purse and it was waterlogged. Peter L. Griffith: Okay, but wait a minute, before that. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Peter L. Griffith: So we get there and they don't want to give it to us, because something they had and I'm like, oh my God, I can't, I can't do. And I started having a breakdown right there. And the guy gave us the, you know, the guy gave us the purse and, you know, go ahead. Paula Edgar: Yeah, no, I forgot about that part, but I also remembered, it wasn't just your breakdown, because I remember that I was like, you don't really want us to have to come back here. I turned, I was like, you're not going to do that. But it was one of the times where I remember feeling like, I hate that she has been minimized to just being a number. I hate that we have to go through the bureaucracy of her being a victim as opposed to me being like, are you kidding, this is my mother, give me her purse. Anyway, we get the purse and it's waterlogged. And then we took it home and we went through it. And she had your high school ring in the purse. And I just remember thinking, she had your high school ring, like, she loved you, like, you know, like it's one thing to know it, right? And it's another thing to have reminders of just how much she loved us all. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, yes. Paula Edgar: And people throughout these years have asked a lot of times, did they find her? And yes, we were able to have another memorial, because they found remains. But I never, in all of that time, people would be like, oh, is it hard for you to go down there? I never thought of her being there. It was, like, when I go down to the memorial, I love… I think it's, I mean, because I've studied museum anthropology, I think it's a beautiful memorial. They did a fantastic job of capturing the imprints of the building with, you know and anybody who hasn't been there, I really do think that folks should go there. It is, I think, one of the best memorials that has been done. But I don't think of my mother as being there. Peter L. Griffith: Yes. You know, so I've come into Manhattan through the tunnel. And when you're coming up one of the streets. And I remember one day I looked up and I was shocked, because the building wasn't there, because usually you can't see past, because and I was like… and like you said, I don't see, I don't think about her as being there. And I don't know why, but it's just like, it doesn't affect me like that, because this is, I mean, okay, it's very nice and everything, but mommy's not here. Mommy is not here. Mommy is here. And it's like, you, I guess it's the relationship that we have with her and it's like, mommy is always here, you know? So she's not there. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Yeah. Peter L. Griffith: And I mean, it is such a… it is very nice to see all that, but I really don't care about that stuff. That stuff means absolutely nothing to me. So I could go down there and see her name and it's like, but I mean, it's like one day I went down there and I went with a friend of mine and she took a candle and stuff like that. You know, I was like, you know, this is not what Peter does. This is not how we are. I am looking at this place as a historical thing. I'm not looking at this as a burial ground for my wife. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Peter L. Griffith: So for me, it's like, OK, you know, I can go there and walk around it. And, you know, like not a big deal. It's so funny, too, because there's a place that I go to to take pictures of birds. And as I'm coming back from there, I think it's Abscon or something is the name of the place. They have a piece of metal from the World Trade Center, a big piece of metal as a memorial. You know, I see this and it's like, OK, you know, like, OK. Yeah. Paula Edgar: I mean, the interesting piece about having lost a family member in the World Trade Center is that it is not as if, you know, she was hit by a car, right? And we have our personal connection to her and having lost her, but it is a very public… Peter L. Griffith: Oh, my God, oh my God… Paula Edgar: … shared experience that we experienced, not as just having lost our mother, our wife, a family member, but also as Americans. Right. As New Yorkers, as we on multiple levels, we experienced grief. And that, I think, was the hardest piece for me. It's like, it's not a private thing that we can just manage on our own. People were always in it with us. And it was very frustrating to have to show up for other people in that space. Peter L. Griffith: So one of the things that the public grieving and I mean, I went back to work and I spent many days at my desk crying, because the grief doesn't just hit you and move, it comes at you. I went to Best Buy one time and I was watching, they had football games on the thing and I started looking at it and I started crying. You don't know when the tears are going to start coming, you don't know when the overwhelming feeling is going to be on you. After she died, I would go outside for a walk and I would walk like maybe two houses down and walk back crying, just crying up and down the street, because I couldn't just sit down in the house anymore and cry. And people in the neighborhood, they knew what had happened to me. And there was nothing they could do. I mean, there were people who, you know, there was this guy at work who came to me one time and he says, you know, he said, you know, if you ever want to talk or go out to lunch or something, you know, and I was very taken aback. I was like, why do you want to take me out to lunch? I don't know. I don't really know you. But years later, I could appreciate the fact that he just wanted to be, he wanted to help me get through the stuff that I've been through. And it was so incredibly public. Everybody knew. Everybody on the job knew what had happened. So they would see me and they could see it. And I wrote about this in something that I wrote a long time ago. It's like, everybody is thankful it's not them. And I don't ask myself, why me? Because a better question is why not me? Why not my wife? And I know everybody is saying, I feel sorry for him, but damn, you know, thank God it's not my wife or my husband or whatever. And I have to deal with that. I have to deal with people trying to be nice to me, when I really don't want people to be nice. I don't want you to touch me. I don't want anything. I just want to be. I remember in church sitting down and this lady put her hand on me and I could just hear Donna saying, just let her put her hand on you. And just, you know, because I was to the point where I was like, you know, I could feel the calm come over me. It's like, I know exactly what you would say to me. So let me just, because everybody was so awful. The people at the church were unbelievable. You know, they just wanted to be there for me to make sure I was okay. It was just, it was just incredible. One little anecdote. Joann's school, she was going to a Christian school and the principal and his wife came over and we were there and, you know, they met you or whatever. And the principal said, you look so much like your mother to you. You know, the thing is, people don't know what to say or, you know, anything. You just, you know, we laughed about it afterwards, but it was like, people are so, I mean, it was such a time in this country, where we've never seen a time like that. And I think things have gotten considerably worse since then, but everybody was focused on healing the people who were hurt. And that was, it was wonderful. It was also painful to have people know that you're hurting. Paula Edgar: Yeah, I, you know, listening to what you were just saying about people pitying and feeling sad, sorry for you. I specifically pushed back against that. To your point about how lucky we were to have her for that amount of time, I never felt like, yes, it sucked that she was gone. That is undisputable. But in my mind, I'm like, you can have 100 years with somebody else and it will never be the quality, the value, the love that we had in the 20 years we had. So when people say like they were like, you know, I'm so sorry. I kind of like bristled, because I was like, yes, I honor the fact that you were trying to connect. Right. But don't feel sorry for me, because I had the most amazing mother. Peter L. Griffith: Yes, yes. You will never know, you will never know the kind of love that we have. So I mean, I tell people this is like you just don't understand. And you know, people talk about mommy and I don't get to talk about her a lot now, obviously, because it's over 20 years and a lot of people don't ask me about her. But when I tell people about her, I have to be very careful, because I started to hear myself and I was like, wait a minute, am I talking about a real person here? Because if you hear people talk about her and it's like, who was this lady? You know, who was this lady? I mean, she was just incredible. And you don't know whether they actually believe you or they think, well, you know, they're just full of it, because their mother's gone and they're trying to, you know, but she was just an incredible human being. Paula Edgar: Whether or not they believe it or not, mommy was everything. Last year, when I read names at the September 11 Memorial at Ground Zero and I wore a shirt that said, my mom was everything. And I remember talking to somebody after I got off of the dais and she was like, oh, you know, that's such a beautiful shirt. And I was like, you have no idea. This is like, I love a statement T-shirt. Like I wear statement T-shirts all the time. But it was like, you cannot understand how, fantastic she was. And I'm sure people say that about their mother and it's true, right? It's everybody's truth, but I've never heard anybody say a bad word about her. And again, truly, no one's probably going to say a bad thing about her to me, but in that sense, still, in all of the different circles and spheres that she was in, people only said just how wonderful she was. And one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you and one of the reasons why it's been so, I've taken it upon as sort of like keeping her legacy alive is something that is very, very important to me. And for all of you who are listening, there is a page on my website, PaulaEdgar.com. And it says, you know, more about me and there's a place that it talks about my mother, Joan Donna Griffith. And I encourage you all to go there to learn more about who she was. But this conversation is going to give you more than that page will. And it's really why I wanted to have it, because you're hearing her impact. And I have a question here about her legacy, but I'm like, I don't have to ask that question, because you are hearing her legacy, you know, and in her spouse, in her children, in her grandchildren, in her extended family. Peter L. Griffith: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. You talk about the nieces and nephews. I mean, it's a big… her legacy is in each and every one of them. You know, she was just incredible. There's still a huge hole in this family that can never be filled. But I must tell you that the position that you're in, as being one of the leaders of this family, being my consigliere, you know, this is the reason why you educate your kids and you pour into them. This is the reason why my mother was a maid, you know, so that I could be, so that you could be, so that TJ could be, so that Austin could be, so that Joann could be, so that Kayden could be, so that there's a foundation. So when you step on stage, you are not going alone, because mommy is there with you. My mother's there with you. Grandpa's there with you, your old buddy from the White Castle days. The people who are going to remain nameless in my family, those people are all there. And the future, the future is bright because of mommy. The future is bright because of the love that we shared. And when I say shared, we, and I'm just including this, we went on vacations and took two other kids with us. Lee and Vicky always went on vacation with us, because that was who she was. She wanted the people to experience things that she did. And I think it was all for the good. Paula Edgar: Yes. I often, when I'm speaking to audiences, I will share something that she said to me a few times, which was, I had the choice. You could be the wind or you could be the leaf. And that, was, you know, how are you going to shape where you're going to be? And she was such an important part of who I am. And I always tell people, I'm like, if you know me, you know her. Because so much of who I am is because of who she was. And to kind of pull the circle and close it, in taking my child to college at Spelman, yay, they had a closing ceremony where you are supposed to give your kids to the school and trust them. And it was something that the priest, or the pastor who was speaking, she said that this moment is something your ancestors had dreamed of. And I burst into tears, because I think of all the people you just mentioned, but I specifically thought about this child who I named after myself and my mother. She is a culmination of who we were and what we poured into. And so you all know who my mother is, because you have heard about the story and the things and how she added value, but you will continue to know who she was, because we will continue to pour the values and the lessons and the fun that she made sure to prioritize into subsequent generations and they will watch this and they will listen and they will hear and know about these things. Because it is important to remember that the victims on September 11th were not numbers. They were not, it was not a fraction, one out of 3,000. And in particular, I could not be me without speaking to the fact that not just that they were people, but that raising up the fact that they were Black people in those that were victims and they were Black executives who were also killed like my mother. And it's important to know that they existed and who they were and that they were not just a number. When we think about it on that day, it's not just a day off or day of service. It's a day of remembering exactly what the world lost, but also what the world had. And so, daddy, I'm so happy that we had a chance to have this conversation. And you know that I always say that I'm a chip off the old block. And I love you very much. And I'm so happy that we were able to talk about mommy. And for all of you who are listening, remember to go and look on the website to learn a little bit more about mommy, to share this with other people who you think would be helpful to hear about her and her legacy and her impact. That's all. Thank you so much, everybody. Bye. Thank you for listening to this deeply personal conversation with my father and for giving us the opportunity to share more of my mother's story. As we commemorate 25 years since September 11th, I continue to wrestle with how much time has passed and how much my mother has missed. There have been graduations, weddings, grandchildren, professional milestones, family celebrations and countless ordinary moments, when I have wished that I could call her, hear her perspective, get a hug, or simply tell her what was happening in my life. But I also recognize just how present she continues to be. She is present in the way I parent, the way I dress, the way I lead, the importance I place on education, the way I document the people and moments I love and my commitment to helping other people recognize their value. Her life continues to shape mine and sharing her story is one of the ways I ensure that the tragedy of how she died never overshadows the fullness of how she lived. 25 years later, I still say her name and I want you to as well, Joan Donna Griffith. I remember her intelligence, her humor, her style, her generosity, her ambition, and the love she poured into our family and the people around her. I invite you to learn and say the names of others who were taken from us on September 11th. Behind every name is a person, a family, a community and a story that deserves to be remembered. And shout out to my dad, Peter L. Griffith, for continuing to share these memories with me, which are sometimes really difficult. And thank you for holding space for our family story. So until next time, take care, hold on to the people you love, and stand by your brand. Bye all. That's it for this episode. I appreciate you hanging out with me on Branding Room Only. Now, please do me a quick favor. Head over to ratethispodcast.com/branding, so more people can join this conversation and make sure to stop by paulaedgar.com/events to see what's next. Whether I'm live, online, or in person, I'd love to see you there. See you next time in the Branding Room. And until then, stand tall, shine bright and always stand by your brand.