Building Your Personal Brand Through Authentic Connections with J. Kelly Hoey
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Your network often sees your magic before you do. J. Kelly Hoey, author of Build Your Dream Network, proved this when her colleagues had to convince her that networking was actually her superpower. As my very first podcast guest, Kelly set the tone for what Branding Room Only is all about: clarity, candor, and community-centered insight.
Kelly's brand is grounded in helping others succeed through meaningful connections. Her approach has transformed careers for countless entrepreneurs and leaders, and her journey from Big Law to entrepreneurship proves the power of strategic relationship building. In this special re-release, we dive deep into what personal branding really means, how your network reflects and reinforces your brand, and why your elevator pitch should be an invitation, not a monologue.
Whether this is your first time hearing this conversation or you're back for a refresher, get ready to take notes. This episode is packed with foundational wisdom that never goes out of style.
Chapters
2:30 – What personal brand means to Kelly and why you need to listen to your network
5:04 – Kelly's approach to elevator pitches and networking your ambitions
11:11 – How Kelly describes herself and the Central Park analogy that changed everything
16:14 – The Oscar Wilde quote that guides Kelly when she feels off track
18:12 – Kelly's hype song from a Quincy Jones compilation
20:00 – How Kelly's network convinced her to write Build Your Dream Network
23:40 – Why personal branding became the confidence builder she needed
27:04 – Mentors who shaped Kelly's career (including some unexpected lessons)
31:45 – The pivotal career change that taught Kelly about plan B
35:00 – The best advice about having a plan B (spoiler: you shouldn't have one)
37:19 – The biggest networking mistake and why "don't be a jerk" is the real secret
41:41 – Kelly's best advice for building your brand through your network
43:25 – How to handle network feedback about your ambitions
45:04 – Kelly's "Stand By Your Brand" moment and her networking magic
Connect With J. Kelly Hoey
Author J. Kelly Hoey wrote the modern classic Build Your Dream Network and is working on her next book, which tackles the uncomfortable truth that women can't network like men and expect equal results. A lawyer who pivoted to entrepreneurship, Kelly co-founded a startup accelerator, led a global women's business network, and co-created Apple's Meet The Innovators series – each of these bold career moves, she attributes to the power of networks. Featured in The New York Times, Forbes, and on CNBC's Power Pitch, Kelly now works with high-achieving women to help them design the social capital needed to move their careers forward.
Mentioned In Building Your Personal Brand Through Authentic Connections with J. Kelly Hoey
“Carla Harris | The 2016 MAKERS Conference” - YouTube
“Rock With You” | Brandy and Heavy D | From Q. With Love - YouTube
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Pearls of Power: How to Use Authenticity, Boldness, and Intentionality with Carla Harris
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Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.
PGE Consulting Group LLC empowers individuals and organizations to lead with purpose, presence, and impact. Specializing in leadership development and personal branding, we offer keynotes, custom programming, consulting, and strategic advising—all designed to elevate influence and performance at every level.
Founded and led by Paula Edgar, our work centers on practical strategies that enhance professional development, strengthen workplace culture, and drive meaningful, measurable change.
To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.
Transcript
Paula Edgar: Hi everyone, it's Paula Edgar and welcome back to Branding Room Only. If you're new here, I'm so glad that you've joined me because this is where I talk to dynamic leaders, trailblazers, and game changers about the intentional ways they build, express, and evolve their personal brands. But today's episode is a special re-release and it's one that means a lot to me personally.
I am revisiting my conversation with the brilliant Kelly Hoey. She's the author of Build Your Dream Network, a speaker, a facilitator, and someone who lives and breathes authentic connection. Kelly was my very first guest on this podcast and I chose her for that moment because I've always admired how she moves with thoughtfulness, with clarity, and with unmatched intentionality when it comes to building relationships.
Relationship building isn't just something that Kelly does, it's a core strength of her brand and I love it. So in this episode, we dive deep into what personal branding really is, how your network reflects and reinforces your brand, and while your elevator pitch is in the monologue, it is an invitation. So whether this is your first time hearing this conversation or you're back for a refresher, get ready to take some notes. This re-release is packed with insight, strategy, and some serious mic drop moments. Let's jump in.
Welcome to The Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies, and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now, let's get started with the show.
Hi, everyone. I'm Paula Edgar, the host of Branding Room Only, where I bring you industry leaders and influencers to talk about how they're using their skills, talents, and experiences to create and amplify their personal brands.
Today, I have with me someone who is very special. We're going to probably talk about that. It's Kelly Hoey, and she is an author of Build Your Dream Network. So Kelly says her brand is grounded in networks and making meaningful connections, which explains how her career has migrated from Canada to New York, Biglaw to entrepreneurship, and onto numerous unexpected career opportunities, including publishing a book.
Kelly, welcome to the Branding Room Only podcast.
J. Kelly Hoey: It is so wonderful to be here with you. I'm like, anyone watching the video is going to see us beaming ear to ear. This is like, oh, the energy.
Paula Edgar: So energy and what I expected and why I said to you that I was so happy to have this conversation is really a part of branding, what you can expect from someone and what they deliver. So tell me, what does personal brand mean to you? How do you define it?
J. Kelly Hoey: Well, for me, for personal branding, I think you need to listen and observe and see what it is that your network sees in you.
Because you hate the expression "put a lipstick on a pig" thing. But people can think, "All right, I've changed the colors on my website. I've done this. I bought the right suit." But how we behave and engage, there’s stuff we control, but how other people react to it is our, there's where the rubber hits the road with your personal brand.
So for me, when I think about personal branding, I think about how do your everyday interactions, how are those—all those micro networking actions—formulating a picture of who you are? And is it the picture you want it to be?
I think of that really amazing, there's a Maker's video of Carla Harris, and she talks about having to change the perception, a.k.a. her personal brand. So she was tougher and it is classic and it is amazing. What does your network see? You may think you're one thing, you may think you're portraying something else, but listen to your network. What is it they see in you?
Paula Edgar: Ooh, Carla Harris. So when I do presentations on branding, I use a quote that basically where she says that everything that happens in terms of your career trajectory happens when you're not in the room. So you need to make sure that people are talking about you in a way in which it aligns with what you want to be said about you.
So I love that you brought up Carla Harris. She's one of my faves.
J. Kelly Hoey: She is so amazing. Yeah. The people didn’t think she was tough enough. She got the feedback that she wasn’t tough enough. So she said, “Okay, how do I change this perception?”
So when people would come to her to give feedback on decks and things, or they say, “Oh, so-and-so wants to make an appointment with you to give feedback on something,” she’s like, “Well, tell me about this person, because you know my feedback’s tough.”
So she started dripping in this language. So it got to the point that people were like, “We gotta have our act together because, you know, Carla, she’s tough.”
So you may think you’re tough, but if they think you’re a marshmallow, you’ve got to change that perception.
Paula Edgar: Which is a really good segue into the words you use about yourself and the things you say about yourself are important in terms of setting and aligning what your personal brand is. So to that end, Kelly, what’s your elevator pitch?
J. Kelly Hoey: So I’ve got lots of thoughts on elevator pitch.
Paula Edgar: Tell me.
J. Kelly Hoey: But at the moment—and one of the things, you say, “Hey, what’s the elevator pitch?” or “What do you—as a personal brand—you’re sharing with people?” I’m like, I always say to people, “How are you networking your ambitions to the world?” Because your personal brand, what are you networking? Are you putting out to the world the personal brand that you want to be found for? Because you and I know lots of people do multiple things. You're like, “Well, what do you want? Do you want people to send you legal work or photography or like, what is the thing?”
So when you think about your personal brand, like what’s the bullseye? What’s the Mount Everest? What’s the North Star that you want?
So I’m in another one of these phases, Paula, that my life is like, I’m kind of walking down that curvy path of career transformation, reinvention again. There are pieces I’m pulling together from, yes, I’m looking to author another book. Yes, I’m still doing public speaking. Did a coaching program last year and I’ve got to get my coaching certification, and I’m doing a lot of facilitation and I’m like, "Not sure what this is yet."
So maybe the start of my elevator pitch is, “I’m in another phase of reinvention.” But when I think about elevator pitches and how I really do start them off, I start it off with, “What is it you really do?” What I really do is help other people succeed.
And then someone says, “Well, how do you do that?” Well, how I do that, I mean, when I think about my career, at one point I did that as a lawyer. I helped a lot of corporations succeed by taking their companies public or doing M&A deals or all that stuff. Then I was in professional development and I helped attorneys succeed. Then I built a women’s initiative for a global law firm. So I helped their women succeed.
So I think of all the pieces and where is the thread between lawyer and author and all the multitude of crazy stuff in between? Helping other people succeed.
But when I think about elevator pitches, like what’s the thing that starts a conversation? Because a lot of times we rehearse an elevator pitch and I look at it as someone just vomiting words on me. It makes me want to go, “Okay, that’s nice. Anyway,” turn and talk to somebody else.
So tell me what you do. You can have your 90 seconds, but have a pause, have some cadence, have something so I want to say, “How many more?”
And I always think of a lawyer at a big firm and I said, “What’s your elevator pitch?” and she’s like, “I’m a partner at blah blah blah in the litigation group and I do intellectual property.”
I’m like, “Oh, find me a sharp object to stab myself.” So I finally said to her, “What do you really do?” She said to me, “I open new markets in the pharmaceutical industry.” I said, “Say more. Tell me more.”
She says, “I’m a patent attorney and I find weak patents held by big pharma and attack those weak patents so generic drugs can get on the market earlier.”
Exactly. That was my face. I’m like, “I have so many questions. What do you mean weak patents? What do you mean weak patents held by big pharma? What do you mean weak patents are being held by big pharma preventing me from getting low-cost drugs?” I’m like, “I have so many questions.”
All of a sudden now we’re having a conversation. So even if she had this, “Hey, what’s your elevator? Hey, what do you do?” “I open new markets...” whatever, whether she had her planned 90 seconds or 3 minutes, that cadence to allow somebody else to engage.
Because most times when we’re doing an elevator pitch, we’re doing it with another person as opposed to on stage or an introduction. So anyway, long answer to a short question.
Paula Edgar: No, it’s perfect symmetry because again, when I teach about this, I always say you have to have it broken into five separate statements because that way it makes it easier to weave into what you’re saying as opposed to being ready to read your soliloquy.
"When I was a young child, this thing happened to me." It is relationship-wise, people are going to want to jump in and out. Like it’s a double dutch of conversation that we do.
So that was, I mean, perfectly said in terms of having that pause and having that cadence. I’m a big believer in, the elevator pitch is a part of the way people talk about this in the industry, but the way it works in real life when it’s interesting is that people are going to jump in and jump out of it.
So I love that. But you said something that I gotta go back to because I love a mic-droppable moment. You said, “You gotta network your ambition.” And I was like, “I’m going to put that on a T-shirt.”
And I mean, that is so it in a nutshell, because it’s really talking about the mission. "What am I here for? What am I doing this for? And what do I want to get out of it?" And again, it’s not transactional, right?
It gives you a North Star like you were saying. It gives you something to work towards. And I love that. So I didn’t want the listener to let that go by without stopping and being like, “Did you hear what she just said?” We are definitely tweeting that. So thank you for that.
So to that end, when I talk to people about their brands, I also say to them, "Tell me how you describe yourself in three words or short phrases." I want to hear what you say, what your thoughts are about that.
J. Kelly Hoey: Ooh, three words or short phrases. I think I had began to think about this and then I'm like, "What was I thinking about?"
I mean, when I think about myself right now, I'm a Canadian in New York. That screams to, “Oh, she's got a different worldview, yet she needs to be in this diverse, vibrant environment.” That piece of it.
When I think about myself right now, I'm in transformation. I'm someone who has been resistant to uncertainty, but whose career has thrived because of change and uncertainty.
Paula Edgar: All of that. All of that. If I can, I want to just say what just came up for me. I thought to myself, the first thing that came to mind was “chameleon,” but that's not right. It's something about the transition piece, but that's not chameleon. It's more like metamorphosis is what I think about when I see you, because in the time that I've known you, you've been like five different people. My therapist says we're a different person every day after having experienced COVID, all of that.
But for some people, if I were to say that, it would seem scary to me. But for me, it seems very much like a real core piece of who you are. And whether that is “not right now, I'm trying to figure it out,” it still doesn't feel inconsistent with who you are. So I love that.
J. Kelly Hoey: A big thing for me over this time period of the last few years, I think there is an upside to having to sit still and sit with yourself and step out of the hustle culture. Put aside the New York, but the whole hustle culture and say, “Really, who am I? When am I? What really rocks my world? When have I truly been successful? What has that been?”
For me, I really have to trust my intuition. If I use a word to describe myself, doing. Just doing things reveals to me what I should be doing.
You live in New York, I live in New York. The original design of Central Park, there was no straight lines because the paths, you’re supposed to always be like, “What's around the corner?”
When you get to that “around the corner,” you know where you've been, but it's not this looming thing like, “There's where I've come from.” It was always supposed to be discovery.
I need to remind myself, because when I am in that state of engaging, of sharing what I'm capable of, showing what I can do, expressing what I'm passionate about and just moving, that's when opportunities reveal themselves as opposed to me having the action plan.
Paula Edgar: That analogy about, or the fact about, Central Park was interesting to me because I'm a Brooklyn girl. I like to stay in my borough unless I'm flying out.
But each time I think about being in Central Park, I think about it as being lost. But what you just gave to me was this is, number one, intentional, that you're not supposed to feel like you want to come out. I was like, “Who the heck am I? I just passed six different trees. I know that there's a fountain, but I'm not sure where I am.”
That actually makes me feel, even as a New Yorker—because I always feel like I'm cheating in not knowing what I'm supposed to be doing there—I feel a little bit calmer in it.
J. Kelly Hoey: Right. Also, look at some of the old light stanchions. A lot of them do have a little plaque on it that will give you what the cross street is. So it'll say 60 or it'll say 73. Then you're like, “Oh, if I go in a straight line, I will be at 73rd Street on the East or West.”
But it is intentionally designed for that wonder and discovery and “what’s around the corner?” Yes, this reflection. Anyway.
Paula Edgar: No, yeah. I mean, I have a lot of skills. I would say that I can do a lot of things. One of them is not read a map. One of them is not have direction. But that is good to know, just in case.
Okay, so I'm thinking about that and what you said about taking a pause. Two-part question. So one is I like to ask people about, is there a quote or a guiding value that you have in your life that helps you to come back to the place in the road, whenever you feel like you're a little bit off? I'll start with that, and then I'll ask you the second question. So is there something that comes to mind?
J. Kelly Hoey: Oh, I mean, when I think quotes, for me, Oscar Wilde always comes to mind: “Be yourself because everyone else is taken.”
Paula Edgar: Speaking of personal brands.
J. Kelly Hoey: Yeah, you know what? Because we can get so whipsawed in our hyper-connected social media-influenced world. We can get so trumped down in our truth because of somebody else's frustrations and ambitions and goals, what they wanted and therefore they foist their frustrations on you. So you get a lot of “you shoulds” and all the rest of the stuff. I come back to Oscar Wilde.
Paula Edgar: I love that. I also think about the fact that comparison—when you have your own path and other people have it—it’s never a good thing. It's just never something that you should do.
I often find when I talk to people, they will think about their brand in a sort of diminutive way, like, “Oh, it's not as good,” because they are comparing themselves to someone else.
I'm like, “Let's just stick to you and what your value proposition is, how you come to the table and what you want to shine with versus whoever else is over there.”
That's important, but it's never as important as, to your point when you started off: “What’s your ambition that you’re networking towards?” I love that so much.
So, I've got your quote. Then I always think, if you're going into a room or if you are sad and you want to pick yourself up, and it’s a two-part, because sometimes the song is different.
So I love this theme of this way of saying, “You have a hype song.” I have a hype song whenever I'm going to speak. I play a song beforehand. Everybody, in case you want to know, it's Prince "Baby, I'm A Star, but I also have songs that I play it if I want to pick myself up, even if I'm not going to speak.
It's also Prince Baby, I'm A Star, but I have a whole soundtrack for that one. So do you have a song that kind of gets you into that space, whether it's going into a room or just need to pick yourself up?
J. Kelly Hoey: So it was so funny. I had to go—because my music and stuff changes. So I thought, “Let's go look at what song I play a lot of. Let's go to Apple Music, most played kind of stuff,” and I'm like, “Well, that doesn't surprise me.”
So it's the song “Rock With You,” but it's the Brandy and Heavy D version on a Quincy Jones compilation. And it just, yeah.
Paula Edgar: I know that compilation because I used to play it all the time and I have not thought about that whole album in such a long time. So now I gotta pull it up. Now that I'm going to link it, but it'll be there so that you’ll make sure that you have it.
Oh, I can’t wait. And you would not know this, but Heavy D, one of my faves. And because he was Jamaican and I'm half Jamaican, and I was like, “Oh my god, he's Jamaican?” When I was growing up, like, “He can be a celebrity?” Small things. I'm so glad you brought that up.
Okay, great. So now let's jump into some more. I know that you're an author, and I want you to talk to me about that as a platform and how you have built your personal brand, and specifically with the book, but other networks that you have used to build your brand.
J. Kelly Hoey: So what's interesting about the book is, I had to listen to my network to tell me, A) this is my expertise, and B) that I should be writing a book.
So if I dial it back, it was when I was still working in the law firm world and I was in law firm management, my then boss said to me, “You need to tell people what you do. You need to explain to them this thing about building networks. The network. You need to tell people and share this information.”
I looked at him and told him he was an absolute idiot. “This is the most stupid and boring thing I've ever heard.”
Part of that was, I was sitting in my own head like, “Doesn't everyone do it this way? What are you talking about? I just do this. Doesn't everyone do this?”
So I think this is where it comes to listening to your network. That thing you do so seamlessly, that thing that comes naturally to you, that may be your secret sauce. You might be like, “But hold on a minute here.”
So anyway, then there was that. Then paying attention to that, when I was then approached by several other authors for me to give insight to them on their books on networking, I was like, “Wait, just stop the press here. If I'm the expert’s expert, maybe I should write the book.”
Part of this is by the time it came around for me to say, “Whoa, I'm going to write a book,” I had listened to my network and started to pay attention. I had done a lot of things and diversified my network and had been involved in roles and things and speaking about networks and networking. I'd already had it.
So a lot of the platforms we think of for a personal brand, they were already there. That was foundation. It was in place when this thing happened, as opposed to “Here's my thing. Now how do I build around it?” The foundation was there.
Now it was like, because when I reached out on my newsletter to say I was going to write a book, the responses I got from my network were like, “Finally. We've been waiting for this.”
So that's one of those things, too. Sometimes you finally decide to switch gears. But I would say to people, bring your network on your journey. Then you're refining, you're getting the evangelists, you're getting all the stuff as opposed to showing up as a fully formed human being and complete and saying, “Hey, did anyone notice?”
I mean, that awe and amazement, that works well for haute couture fashion shows. Like, surprise and delight us. But the rest of us, it's like, bring people on this journey. Get their feedback so that your brand is really having the impact you want it to have.
Paula Edgar: What you're talking about is like an authentic process. It's something where, if you're saying, “I don't have it in perfection, but I'm letting you know that it's on its way and this is my goal. This is what I want. I want you to be involved,” that authenticity and that vulnerability in saying, “Let's figure this out,” it draws people closer to you.
And those are also key pieces in having a brand that is memorable. Right?
J. Kelly Hoey: When you're really scared. When you're uncertain. Like, I remember when I decided to write a book, Paula, there was a very quiet little voice when I wanted to tell people. Because I had never imagined—I know a lot of people imagine writing books—I never imagined writing a book.
Going back to that Canadian in New York thing, I grew up reading Margaret Atwood. Reading Margaret Atwood since one was like 12 years old. So you say that about my formative years, that is, when I think of writing, I think of Margaret Atwood. “I can't do that. That’s... whatever.” I couldn't see myself doing that. Therefore, I shut that off.
So when I finally had this burning desire to do this thing and not feeling confident in it, and saying it in that quiet voice, having this network who could see the possibilities in me, who saw that, “Oh no, no, Kelly, let's pull off those fears and veneers that had been established by someone else. No, your brand is doing this kind of stuff. Your brand is sharing this information. This does align with your brand of helping others succeed. Please do this.”
That gave me the confidence to pursue it.
Paula Edgar: What I love about that is sometimes talking about branding—the dovetail goes into either talking about impostor syndrome or feeling that impostor piece, and also the ability to self-promote and have self-advocacy.
What you just said is that other people could help you get there. It doesn't have to be only self-generated. A lot of times, people will think about this as like, “If I don't do it, and I don't pull myself up from my bootstraps—and even though I have my own boots—whatever, then it's not what it needs to be.” We should be tapping into our networks for support, too.
J. Kelly Hoey: That hero's journey of going it alone, let's just call it what it is. It is BS. All of us have support.
We all pop out of somebody's womb. We all have, like, you know what I mean? None of us just lands on this planet fully formed and able to achieve something. When someone says, “Oh, well, I built this.” You had no employees? No one gave you feedback? No one bought your product?
We all get to succeed with the help of other people. So the more your brand is about helping people get where they go so you can get where you go, the stronger your brand is going to be.
Paula Edgar: Love it so much. I love it so much. Tell me about this, who are some of the people who serve as mentors and those key stakeholders for you? What was that support system like for you? Anybody come to mind that you're like...
J. Kelly Hoey: Oh my gosh. I mean, I've had some incredible mentors. I've had incredible mentors who were horrible people who taught amazing lessons.
I say that, I think of one law firm partner I worked for. Truly, ultimately, a horrible human being. But his attitude when he was this very senior, powerful partner, his attitude toward the people who worked with him was, “I train my assassins.”
He wanted everyone around him to be better, stronger, more successful than him. He created more power by taking that attitude because we were so beholden to him. He gave us—as a junior person—enough rope to hang ourselves, but we never could hang ourselves kind of thing.
We got so much responsibility and such incredible learning that you would put up with a lot of really egregious behavior because the rest of it was amazing. This is what helped this person be successful.
I thought of another mentor around the same time period who every year would have dinner with some of the female associates. Now, that can, in the Me Too era, sound, "This isn't appropriate."
But this guy wanted to know how things were going. I want to say the libations flowed, not because he was trying to do anything, but he wanted the truth. And sometimes a little alcohol is a really good truth serum.
We would have these dinners and it was like cone of silence. We would tell what was going on. The next day or the next couple of days, all of a sudden, all that friction and riff—
So I think about when I've been asked by, particularly men, how can they support women? I said, “Go in there and tell the person, your peer, who is being a problem, tell them to get it right. Don't tell the woman what to do. Don't tell us that we should go in there and be tough and do that. No, no, no.”
Make your brand, as the mentor, as the ally, make your brand the one who goes in and calls BS on the behavior of your peers. Anyway, this is what this guy did. It was amazing.
All of a sudden, it's like, “Oh, gee, all that problem I had with that partner. Oh, that closing dinner I didn’t get invited to. Oh, all of a sudden, I've got the prime seat.” The things he did and used his power, it was just like, yeah.
Paula Edgar: That's such a great example. Because you're talking about impact. So much of what we hear—particularly about law firms and a lot of other layered industry folks—is that it's a lot of talk and not a lot of action.
So if you're going to ask and say what it is that's going on, and then you don't do anything with it, then the trust is eroded. So there's a brand building in being an impactful, inclusive leader by hearing.
And also, it's not just the listening. So many people are like, “Oh, my intent is great.” I'm like, “Great, but your impact sucks.”
J. Kelly Hoey: Or their action is telling someone else what to do rather than say, “What is it within my, like, let me understand the power dynamic. What is within my power?” So when I really think about it and I think about today, people who guide and mentor me, they come in all shapes and sizes. The people I can learn from and engage with, there's a Cassidy Williams, a young woman who is a developer who's based out in, software developer based out in Chicago. She's like, “My mentor, Kelly.” I'm like, “Yo, let's just stop there. Who's mentoring who here?”
Paula Edgar: That's the great thing about being in relationship with people. It's not supposed to be one-sided. Not if you do it right. It's supposed to be, “What are we learning from each other?”
Sometimes that's just in how to interact with me better. I'm a big believer in asking my mentees, “Did you get that? Is there another way that I could say this that will make it easier?” Because I want feedback as well so I can do this better going forward. So I love that.
So tell me this, you have done a lot and made a lot of pivots and shifts. Number one, is there one pivot that was like your favorite? Like, the one that you're like, "Ah," up till now, because obviously we're going to do more and it'll be whatever the next thing is. But is there one that shifted you so, or that gave you agency, whatever it is, that was the most impactful for you?
J. Kelly Hoey: You know what? I think it's when I left the law firm world and went and became the first president of a global business network for women. I did not know about doing that.
I think that's something for a lot of people. They may be in a job or a role right now and they're thinking, “I just gotta keep my head down and do the good work,” or, “I really want to do this other thing, but there's so much uncertainty.”
So there I was, Biglaw firm, working in a management role, nice paycheck, all the benefits, whatever. Here I was offered a role to be the first president of a global business network for women. My compensation was going to be equity. Period.
I didn’t know what to do. I talked to a friend who was a partner at the firm I was at. She said to me, “Well, what's the worst that can happen if you take this role?”
Of course, being a woman, I'm like, “I'm going to be living under a bridge somewhere.” Side, Paula, that I was married at the time and my husband could foot all the bills and all that stuff, but I'm like, “I'm going to be living in a cardboard box.” Just such a weird place, right? Our brain, that brain loves to go to weird places.
And I'm looking at her like, “What's the worst that can happen?” I'm like, “Where do you want to start?”
And she says, “Maybe the worst that can happen? You come back here and get your old job back.” And it was like the lightning bolt of “I have a network in this area. I have a reputation. I have a personal brand in management. I have built relationships that will survive a six-month or a 12-month professional absence. You know what? I can turn back to—”
As if the universe wanted to remind me of that, it was really funny, it was when I was writing Build Your Dream Network and I got an email from a headhunter looking to fill a professional development manager role, I'm like, “Thank you, universe.” It was like three years later, and you're just wanting to give me that little nudge. I'm like, “All right, I still have a brand here. I still have experience.”
So when I think about a pivotal career change—and it's something that I would, I'm so glad you asked that question—it was really like, build your network, you know? Keep doing that. Build your expertise so that you're known for something and your network knows what to know you for. Let that be your plan B. Your reputation. Your relationships. That's your plan B if what you're going for falls apart.
Paula Edgar: I mean, it's like plan A, B, and C. It's just how you exercise it, no matter what. So no matter what. That's good.
J. Kelly Hoey: One of the best pieces of advice a mentor and friend gave to me when I was writing my book, he said, “What are you working on?” I said, “I'm writing this book. There's no plan B.” He said to me, “There shouldn’t be a plan B.”
This guy’s a startup investor. He said, “There shouldn’t be a plan B, because if you're thinking about plan B, you're not executing plan A.”
I know, I know. So that’s why I think about your plan B is your history of relationships, your history of are you consistent? Can people rely on you? Are you there for other people? Have you delivered in the past? That’s your plan B, as opposed to being scattered on, “Well, if this doesn’t work, I’ll do this.” What does that say about you?
Paula Edgar: I mean, it really is. I have a magnet on my refrigerator that says something to the effect of, “You can believe in yourself.” You are the person that you can believe in.
I always think about this whenever I talk to anybody or think about my own pivots, it’s that, as long as it’s you, that plan A, that plan B, whatever it is, you are going to be the one that’s going to identify how you’re going to put your effort into it or not.
You're going to be the one that’s going to be able to access the networks that you have built and invested in and all those things. That’s powerful. I mean, that’s so powerful.
When you were saying that, I thought to myself, “Is there a piece of advice that people ask you about the most from the book?” That you're like, “Everybody needs to know this.” Or anything that you think, one game changer, because everybody’s obviously going to go buy the book, but is there something that you feel like, “You need to know this. This is important”? I have a feeling I know what it is because I’ve read the book. But let me see.
J. Kelly Hoey: No, I want to hear. Of course, after I give my answer, I want to hear your answer. So as soon as you start saying it—and this will be me coming on through—I’m often asked, “What’s the hack? What’s the networking hack? What’s the trick to networking?” I look at people and I say, “Don’t be a jerk.”
I mean, you can’t hack human relationships. If your personal brand is hacking human relationships, then everyone’s going to be like, “Talk to the hand.” Or you’re going to get radio silence when you send out emails or you post something, like the little boy who cried wolf. No one is going to be there for you because you haven’t valued other human beings.
So how do you show up every day? That matters more than how you show up once. Do not hack those relationships. That’s my one piece of advice. Just don’t be a jerk.
Paula Edgar: I love it. I love that, because it’s good sound advice. Across everything, it’s good advice. But it’s about not following up.
J. Kelly Hoey: Oh yeah. I mean, to me, if there’s a thing to do, like if you're like, “Kelly, I’m not a jerk and I’m really considerate,” but I’m like, "Here’s the one thing."
I think the single biggest mistake people who are really trying to forge meaningful connections make is they don’t follow up. It’s not the thank you.
It’s the, “Hey, three months later, I took your advice.” Or, “By the way, you made that introduction, here’s what happened.”
As opposed to just saying, “Well, I did follow up. I thanked them for the introduction.” But did you tell them what happened?
You know, little things like that. When you leave people wondering and hanging around like, “Did that person call you? Did you get the interview? What happened with the job?”
Paula Edgar: Taking your time, your energy, your sphere of influence, and applying it to something, so you at least want to know that that investment—
J. Kelly Hoey: Yeah. That’s your networking generosity. Because people always ask, “What do I do? Hey, what’s my networking give? I’m just starting out, what do I give someone else?” You give consideration, respect, and generosity for somebody else’s relationships, reputation, and time.
I’m so specific, relationships, reputation, and time. Those are our only three assets in life. Two of those are renewable. One is not. Someone will give you reputation or relationships if you respect their time and value their time. Period. Full stop.
Paula Edgar: I’m just writing out the graphics in my head like, “And then she said... and then after that she said this...” It's so on one hand, common sense-y, but because we know this, people just don’t think about it. I get really frustrated. Because when I think about the time piece, even if I’m napping, it’s a better use of me wasting my time if you’re not going— Because I love napping. You know what I mean?
J. Kelly Hoey: That is solid good news. Daydreaming. Imagining. Disconnecting. Letting your subconscious create things. You might come up with your best ideas. You might have absolute clarity on what’s next by doing that. Hustling around for someone else who’s being, you know, ultimately inconsiderate of your own time?
Paula Edgar: I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, so I’m going to start closing our convo by asking you this. Maybe you just gave it, but what advice do you have for people trying to build their brands? But I’m going to cross it with their network and using their networks. What’s your advice?
J. Kelly Hoey: Really listen. Listen, and that is you may discover something about yourself that is your secret sauce you didn’t know. I think of my friend, Joyce Sullivan. She thought of herself as an operational Wall Street person.
Because of the crash and Lehman Brothers and stuff, 2007, 2008, that era, she found herself without a job for the first time since she was a teenager. There she is doing the outplacement coaching. Someone said, “You’re a marketer.” She’s like, “No, I’m not.” Then like 19 other people in the room are like, “Yeah, you’re a marketer.” She’s like, “Whoa. Whoa, I gotta listen to this. I gotta pay attention.” You don’t brush those things off. So listen to what your network says.
And also, in terms of growing your brand and your network, listen to what you’re feeling. The networking scenarios, the places to enhance your brand, grow your brand, develop your brand, they’re going to come from where you feel authentic and genuine.
Where are the venues, online and offline, that you show up and you can be yourself, as opposed to something someone else tells you you should be doing, where you feel awkward and uncomfortable? So there’s listening both ways, externally and internally.
Paula Edgar: I love that. Can I ask you a quick follow-up on that?
J. Kelly Hoey: Yeah.
Paula Edgar: Do you think in listening and hearing other people, what they’re saying about your brand and maybe your ambition, all of those things, should you be asking?
J. Kelly Hoey: Yeah. That’s where I really get into saying, “Wow, I never thought of that. How do you see that in me?” Or, “Oh, I hear a lot of shoulds and don’ts in what you’re saying. Where’s that coming from?”
Are they projecting their limiting beliefs? Are they projecting their fears? Maybe you’re surrounded with a lot of people in your network who can’t envision your future. Therefore, you need to find new connections who can envision that future.
Instead of saying, “My dream or my ambition sucks. Let me tamper it down,” maybe you’re saying, “I get it. They’re scared for me. They’re worried. They want to make sure I’ve got a roof over my head,” or whatever it may be.
They can’t see that bypassing partnership or giving up on grabbing the brass ring is really going to fulfill my heart. Let me find some people who can understand that. That's where I'm like, "Yes. Absolutely follow up to find out what is the source of this."
When I think about my friend Joyce, what has come for her from listening to other people saying, “You’re a marketer,” versus just going, “What are you talking about?"
Paula Edgar: "Whatever.” Wow. Okay. So we have two standing questions in Branding Room Only.
J. Kelly Hoey: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
Paula Edgar: One of them is, it’s your “Stand By Your Brand” moment. So what is the authentic aspect of your personal/professional brand that you will never compromise on?
J. Kelly Hoey: Valuing my time.
Paula Edgar: Oh yes. Mic drop. I love that.
J. Kelly Hoey: That’s probably where I say to people, “No is a complete sentence.”
Paula Edgar: Snaps. Okay. So the next one is Branding Room Only. Tell me about your magic. What’s that skill, unique thing about you, that gift, that brand proposition that a crowd is going to gather to hear, see, or experience?
J. Kelly Hoey: For me, Paula, it is really stepping into and accepting that this thing called networking or network building—that activity that most people find cringe-worthy—that there’s a magical way I look at it and help people understand how they can unlock and tap into and build their networks.
I’ve resisted it. I’ve pushed against it. I’ve tried to, but you know what? Everything in my life has come down to interactions with other people. It is so critically important that I just understand now, I need to sit in that space and just accept that that is the chair I sit on.
Paula Edgar: I love that. It would be terrible of me if I did not acknowledge that a space that brought us together is someplace that is very, very, very, very important and dear to me, and that is the New York City Bar Association.
When Kelly and I met all those years ago, I was just hanging out there. I was there at the City Bar, volunteering and doing stuff with committees. Now I’m an officer of the City Bar Association.
J. Kelly Hoey: That is so awesome. I would say the networks in that institution have been so important from my career as a lawyer, to when I made my career transition into management, to when I became an author. I’m so glad you gave them a shout out.
Paula Edgar: Of course. Of course. I want to thank you, Kelly, for being my guest on Branding Room Only today. I loved having this conversation, and I’m already asking you, I know you need to come back.
J. Kelly Hoey: “How soon?” is what I want to say. I am so glad you’re doing this. Thank you.
Paula Edgar: What a conversation. Now you can see why I had to bring this one back. As my very first guest on this podcast, Kelly Hoey set the tone for what this show was all about: clarity, candor, and the kind of community-centered insight that never goes out of style when it comes to personal branding.
This re-release is a reminder that foundational personal branding wisdom holds up, and Kelly’s take on networking, visibility, and authenticity is as relevant today as ever.
Some gems that I’m still thinking about: Number one, network your ambition. What else did Kelly say? She said, “Don’t be a jerk.” It’s the real secret to building relationships.
And of course, a reminder that your network often sees your magic before you do.
Kelly’s always shown up with generosity, strategy, and a deep understanding of how personal branding and relationships are intertwined, and I’m so grateful to call her a part of my network.
If this conversation sparked something for you, please share it with someone who’s building or rebuilding their brand. And if you haven’t already, take a minute to subscribe and leave a review. It really does help more people find the show and join the Branding Room Only community.
Also, I would love love love if you can leave a review at ratethispodcast.com/branding. I’d be so grateful.
Until next time, remember: your personal brand is built moment by moment. Make yours unforgettable. And as always, stand by your brand. Bye.
