Talk to Me Nice: How Trust Shapes Your Personal Brand with Minda Harts

---

Episodes You Might Also Like

Description

Trust is the backbone of every personal brand, whether you name it or not. It shows up in how you communicate, how consistently you follow through, how you handle hybrid work, and how you show sensitivity—or don’t—when people need it most. In a workplace culture filled with mixed signals, missed expectations, and performative “niceness,” trust has become the true measure of credibility. It determines whether people feel grounded with you or guarded around you, whether they choose to follow your lead or quietly disengage. And as Paula and Minda explore, trust isn’t a luxury; it’s the signal that shapes your reputation long before you enter the room.

In this episode of Branding Room Only, Paula sits down with bestselling author and workplace equity leader Minda Harts to unpack how trust shapes personal brands, leadership, and the everyday interactions that define your credibility. They break down how trust erodes in the quiet moments, what the Seven Trust Languages® reveal about what people actually need from you, and how to repair credibility once it’s been damaged. Together, they explore how trust influences hybrid communication, cross-generational dynamics, allyship, and the values-based behaviors that make a leader believable. If you care about how you’re perceived, how you lead, and how your brand lives in the minds of others, this conversation gives you the framework to strengthen every relationship you touch.

Chapters

1:15  – Three words to describe Minda right now, current hype songs, the self-quote on her mind these days, and the repeat track of her trust brand playlist

3:34 – Why Minda’s latest book, Talk to Me Nice, matters in this moment

4:44 – How Minda’s personal brand has evolved (but not pivoted) to leading conversations about trust

6:50 – The communication crisis in the workplace and its impact on trust within organizations

8:41 – Quick rundown of Minda’s Seven Trust Languages® framework 

9:50 – Examples of why security is one of the most important trust languages today

13:43 – Examples of trust violations that can damage your relationships and reputation

17:32 – How managers in the workplace can begin to repair broken trust

20:20 – The first step you can take to demonstrate trust and credibility

23:16 – Follow-through as the key to building trustworthiness in a hybrid work situation (i.e., when you’re not in the same room)

27:22 – Why it’s more important than ever to intentionally build trust

31:55 – The difference between being performative and being demonstrative in allyship

36:36 – Who’s on Minda’s personal trust squad and celebrities whose brands scream trustworthiness

40:20 – What celebrity trust violations can teach others about values and brand alignment

42:27 – Workplace best friends in the heads of Paula and Minda

Connect With Minda Harts

Minda Harts is a best-selling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker who is revolutionizing how organizations build trust. Through her groundbreaking Seven Trust Languages® framework, she helps leaders and teams create cultures where trust becomes their greatest competitive advantage. She has empowered thousands to build stronger workplace relationships and navigate professional challenges with confidence.

Minda’s impact spans boardrooms and conference stages worldwide with companies like Nike, Google, Best Buy, and Zoom calling on her to drive meaningful change through trust-building strategies. She’s been recognized by LinkedIn as the #1 Top Voice in the Workplace and by Business Insider as one of the top 100 People Transforming Business. 

In addition to her speaking and consulting work, Minda is shaping future leaders as a NYU assistant professor and founder of The Memo LLC.

Mindy Harts | LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube

Talk to Me Nice, Right Within, and The Memo by Minda Harts

Mentioned In Talk to Me Nice: How Trust Shapes Your Personal Brand with Minda Harts

Using Branding to Empower Women of Color for Success in the Workplace with Minda Harts

How to Assemble and Leverage Your Personal Board of Directors

Sage Business Management Software and Solutions

Kim Scott, author of Radical Candor

Mel Robbins, author of The Let Them Theory

Curated Resources from Paula

Sign up for Paula’s Upcoming Webinars

Learn More About Paula's Personal Branding Strategy Session Offer

Subscribe to The Branding Room Only on YouTube

Call to Action

Follow & Review: Help others find the podcast. Subscribe and leave a quick review.

Want more branding insights? Join Paula’s newsletter for expert tips and exclusive content! Subscribe Here

Conferences are an investment—make sure you maximize yours. My new Engage Your Hustle™ Conference Playbook gives you the strategies to prepare, stand out, and follow up with impact. Get your copy today.

Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC empowers individuals and organizations to lead with purpose, presence, and impact. Specializing in leadership development and personal branding, we offer keynotes, custom programming, consulting, and strategic advising—all designed to elevate influence and performance at every level.

Founded and led by Paula Edgar, our work centers on practical strategies that enhance professional development, strengthen workplace culture, and drive meaningful, measurable change.

To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Paula Edgar: Welcome to Branding Room Only, the podcast where your personal brand gets a front-row seat. I'm Paula Edgar, and if you're here, it's because you know your brand isn't just about what you do. It's about how people experience you. In each episode, you'll hear stories, strategies, and lessons from leaders and influencers who built their brands and made their mark. And I'll share the tools you need to do the same. Let's go. Hi, y'all. It's Paula Edgar, and welcome back to The Branding Room. I'm very, very excited about my conversation today with my guest. Let me tell you about her. You might be a little familiar. My guest today is Minda Harts, and she is a best-selling author, workplace equity consultant, and speaker. She is the author of The Memo and Right Within, and her new book, Talk to Me Nice, focuses on building and repairing trust in the workplace. She is also a professor at NYU Wagner and a leading voice in advancing equity and leadership. I'm excited to welcome her back into the podcast and have a wonderful conversation about the intersection of trust and personal branding. Minda, welcome back to The Branding Room. Minda Harts: Happy to be back. Good to see you, Paula. Thank you again. Paula Edgar: Good to see you too. All right, so let's jump into some “get back to know you” questions because I want to see if anything shifted since the last time we spoke about this. How would you describe yourself in three words or phrases right now? Minda Harts: Hmm, that one is a—like you said, I like the right now. I would say flexible, trustworthy, and accommodating. Paula Edgar: Okay, I love the trustworthy piece, getting into branding. Okay, now what is your current hype song? Minda Harts: You know, right now you're not going to be surprised by this, Paula, but it is a Beyoncé song, and it's “Freedom” with her and Kendrick, and “a winner never quits on himself.” Paula Edgar: Yes, a good one. This is a Beyoncé safe zone. All right, awesome. So speaking of these days’ directives, what's a quote or mantra that you have been using or thinking about these days? Minda Harts: I know this might sound weird, but for the branding purposes, I'm going to actually quote myself. Paula Edgar: I love it. I love it. Minda Harts: But it hits—“Trust shouldn't be a luxury.” Paula Edgar: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I love that. I love that. What about this—if your brand had a trust soundtrack, what song would always be on repeat? Minda Harts: I would say “Uptown Funk,” Bruno Mars and Mark Ronson. Paula Edgar: You know, I was like, "What song is she going to hit me with?" Yeah, you know what? I'm with it. I'm also a Bruno Mars fan at all times, so it's all good. Minda Harts: Yeah, we need that uptown. We need that reminding that we can have joy even when we are like, "What do we do with our brand?" We can always keep it moving, right? Paula Edgar: Yeah. When the world is doing what it's doing, joy is the only thing that we can be consistent on for ourselves, to make that our mantra, to make that our thing. So I love it as a reminder. Now, speaking of reminders, let's talk about your new book, Talk to Me Nice. I say it with my Brooklyn accent. Minda Harts: Thank you. Paula Edgar: Why this book? Why now? Why do you think it matters, particularly in this moment? Minda Harts: What's funny, Paula, is when I pitched this book to Flatiron a couple of years ago, I had no idea that it would sit in today's climate. Obviously, trust never goes out of style. We're always going to need it and want it. But I think we're craving it more inside the workplace and outside the workplace like never before. I feel like a lot of us are just not trusting each other anymore. We're thinking the worst. Even with our brand, you see a certain thing, you automatically don't take things into consideration. You just create a narrative that may or may not be true. I think trust is one of those things that we want in our romantic relationships. We want it in our platonic relationships. Why wouldn't we want it in our workplaces as well? So this book is there’s no future without trust. Paula Edgar: Hmm. I mean, it's true. I know that this has been a part of the ecosystem recently. I was saying to you before we started that I have seen your consistency in terms of talking about trust. It's become, for me, a part of your personal brand. So when I thought about this question, I thought to myself, "How do you think that trust directly shapes a personal brand?" Minda Harts: You know, this is important. I think I grappled with this for quite a while, because for those who knew me with my previous work with The Memo and Right Within and some of that more equity-focused work, I thought, "Well, what will people think of me when I start talking about trust?" But I had to dig deep and say, "You know what, Minda, your brand has always been trust. You were talking about trust for a certain demographic, and now you're saying yes, and. So it is congruent with what I've been doing. So the brand is still in its evolutionary phase, right, Paula? So at the core of all the work that I've been doing is how do we enhance trust with each other, and how do we oftentimes erode it? But when we erode it, how do we get trust back on the tracks? For me, I realized that I have been authentic to myself, right? Because some people will say, they'll say to me, and I'm sure you hear it at times, "Oh, you pivoted." Well, no, really, I didn't. I just evolved the brand, really. Paula Edgar: Yes. Brands are supposed to evolve, right? As we evolve, as the world evolves, as things that are priorities within workplaces and personally evolve, it's not supposed to stay static. It's supposed to stay consistent. I think that's what you said. So yes, when things are inconsistent or erratic, right, folks are unable to trust that brand. So I love how you laid it out and really thinking about the reflection of what happens when you try to pivot to something else. Pivoting is okay. It's fine as long as you have a through line. I think the through line to the work that you've done is that people feel connected to you. That “friend in your head” thing is definitely a thing. So I'm glad you laid it out the way that you did. It makes a lot of sense. Something else that you said is we're in a workplace communication crisis. I think we're in a communication crisis, but definitely a workplace communication crisis. What does that look like in practice? What does that mean? Minda Harts: Yeah. You know, over the years, I've had different people say to me—and you've probably heard people say it too—“I don't trust my manager. I don't trust my colleague. I don't trust HR.” That's a big one. I started to think about what they weren't saying, what was underneath the reason why they no longer trusted. What I found was that there was this expectation that wasn't being met, that the other party may or may not know is eroding the trust. Because trust is not always the big gargantuan moments—the layoff or the reorg. It's sometimes those quiet moments that go unsaid, that we sweep under the rug. You're not going to know necessarily that you eroded trust with me, not intentionally, but because we are very conflict-averse, it's really not that I may not trust you. I just have to communicate that this is what trust looks like for me. It may look different for you. Now that we know that, we can close this expectation gap. So for me, it's less of a trust issue and more of a communication breakdown. Paula Edgar: Expectations have been something that has been in conversation for me this week in a lot of ways, in a lot of places, particularly in therapy. One of the things that my therapist said recently was that we get ourselves in trouble when we have expectations and don't communicate them because then it's a one-sided conversation. If the other person doesn't know, then how are they able to meet them? Then you have to give them the opportunity to meet them. That's exactly what you just said. So I'll tell her that I got another double click on what she said. Minda Harts: Listen, you got a good therapist, Paula. Paula Edgar: That's right. She saves lives every day. Trust me. So speaking of trust, tell me about this. What is this framework of the seven trust languages? Do you think that most people lean on one primary language in terms of their trust language? Minda Harts: So I'm glad you asked that. For me, it's a couple of things. So quickly, if you don't mind, I'll just run through what the trust languages are, just so we have a baseline. But the seven trust languages, really quick, are: Transparency. That’s the clarity and honesty. Security. That’s the intellectual, psychological, and emotional safety and belonging. Demonstration is doing what we say, the behavior. Feedback is meaningful and consistent insight. Acknowledgment is seeing people and their work. Sensitivity is being mindful of our impact and behaviors. Lastly, Follow Through; keeping our word. So those are the seven. I realized when people were talking to me about what was missing or why they didn't trust someone, it was falling in one of these seven buckets. So I'll pause there. Paula Edgar: Yeah, so thank you for laying that out for us. The second part of the question was, do you think that people lean on one more than the other? As you were laying them out, I thought to myself, "Hmm." Right now, don't you think—well, let me ask, what do you think? Sensitivity. That's what came out to me, but maybe I'm just sensitive. But that just came out to me because I think there's a lot going on, particularly in the workplace right now, where people don't trust and that folks are sensitive themselves, but also not thinking about what their impact is in a lot of places too. Minda Harts: Yeah, so in the book, the nice thing is people can take the assessments on what their primary, secondary, and tertiary are. But as a whole, as a community, I do believe that security—the language of security—is probably one of the most important trust languages today. So we are on the same page there because this is essentially the empathy. For example, if you're my manager, Paula, and you live on the East Coast and I live on the West Coast and you see that there's a wildfire taking place, you may not know exactly where that wildfire is, but you know that it's probably not far from me. Instead of doing our year-in review on Zoom, you're going to say, “You know what, Minda, I just saw the news cycle. Are you safe? Are you okay? Do you need anything from us? Let’s pause our year-in review till a little bit later, and let’s check in.” That's being sensitive. That’s going to usher in trust—not saying, “Hey, listen, we got to get this done. Get to the nearest Starbucks immediately. Let’s finish this up just because we’ve got deadlines. You figure it out. Nobody told you to move to L.A.” We experience those types of colleagues and managers every day. Our behavior at that moment could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. I think we have to ask ourselves, “Do I have the right to say this to this person? Have I earned this right? What I’m about to say—is it going to enhance that trust or erode it?” That’s going to be pivotal in our relationship going forward. Paula Edgar: Yeah, I love that framework. You know, many of, I think, most of the people who listen to the podcast and folks in my sphere know that my mother was killed on September 11th. One of the things I remember most about Sage Software—I will name check them because, as an employer, when 9/11 happened, they wrapped themselves around me. It was a national experience, but it was a personal experience for me. I’ll never forget that my manager was like, “Whatever you need.” For me, I needed to be at work. I needed to stay busy because you couldn’t travel. I was just sitting there essentially waiting for phones to ring, et cetera. But they were there. And that makes me a brand loyalist. I don’t work there anymore, obviously, but this is all these years later. I always say it’s important to remember—people always say, “Oh, we’re like family,” but that’s not always the case. There are family members I don’t trust. Let’s keep it real. However, when you demonstrate that people-first and people-forward empathy, it creates people who want to stay, who want to be, and who speak well about their experience even when they’re not there anymore. I think that’s a powerful thing. Minda Harts: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think that is so important because what you did there, Paula, is they spoke two languages. They were sensitive and they also demonstrated. If certain things fell through the cracks, they put enough trust coins in the bank so that you can hold on to that when maybe times were a little rocky. I think that’s so important. That’s realizing that you’re a human first, employee second. Paula Edgar: Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of which, can you share an example of a trust violation—something that will damage not just the relationship but also potentially somebody’s reputation? Minda Harts: I mean, what we’re talking about is credibility, right? I mean, this is credibility. You talk a lot about that on your podcast—brand credibility. So, for example, I think in the workplace, many of us are working hybrid or we do business hybrid. If I’m on an all-staff meeting and I see that your camera is off, I’m not going to assume that you’re in Tahiti working. That’s it—nobody’s working anymore, your green button’s not on, I'm just assuming the worst. I think those are trust violations that we don’t even—AKA, it’s somewhat of a micromanaging thing, right? That’s one of the fastest ways to erode trust. Instead of saying to you, “Paula, I wanted to check in with you because typically on our calls you have your camera on. I just wanted to make sure everything was okay. Do you need anything?” I’m not going to assume that you’re in Tahiti. I’m going to check in. I think that’s something we don’t do anymore. We don’t take things into consideration. We don’t give people the benefit of the doubt. I think those are the moments where we erode trust because we’re assuming. We’re assuming that we have all of the information. What people don’t always understand is that trust isn’t just nice to have, it’s also good for the bottom line. We’re more productive, we’re less anxious, there’s more retention when trust is present. So I think these violations don’t serve the company and they don’t serve the team morale. Paula Edgar: Yeah. You know, I’m thinking about the first thing you said in terms of languages was also transparency—and lack of transparency. Because if you feel as if somebody is not telling you something they could, that definitely is going to erode trust. But I know there are times when, as a manager, as a boss, as an owner, you can’t tell everything. But I think it’s even important to demonstrate and say, “I can’t tell you everything. You understand that in this role I can’t, but I’m going to tell you as much as I can," to toe the line of trying to appear as transparent as possible and to be authentic in that, versus a lot of people leave just based on the cloak-and-daggerness, not necessarily the actual thing people were not being transparent about. I was just reflecting on what you said. I was like, "Yeah, this can be a relationship book too. You can take this into marriage counseling as well. I need to know all the things—as much as I can—in order for us to be in relationship with each other appropriately.” Minda Harts: Yeah. I mean, you hit it on the head. I think right now people are craving that sensitivity. They’re craving transparency again. It’s also saying, “I don’t know everything. When I have more information, I’ll follow up with you. But if you have any questions, feel free to connect with me.” People don’t want you to talk down to them. They don’t want you to act like they’re dumb—like the smoke is coming out of the chimney but there’s nothing to see here. You can acknowledge. Yeah, I know it’s tough right now. I know there’s a lot of changes. I can totally understand why you might feel the way you do. But right now we’re trying to figure things out. Just give us a little more time so we can come back and have a better conversation.” That’s going to settle your nervous system, and trust is still going to be a main character with that, as opposed to keeping everything under wraps and all this ambiguity. People can’t work like that. Paula Edgar: Yeah. At least that safety piece you were talking about, right? We want to feel safe—even in the inconsistency or the lack of information, you still want to feel as safe as you can. Now, until the robots take us over and we’re still human and humans are going to make mistakes, right? So when somebody violates trust, it can be a branding, you can stick to brand. What are some of the ways you think that particularly managers in the workplace can begin to rebuild trust when it has been broken? Minda Harts: I love this question because you hit it on the head—we’re all humans. So we are going to erode somebody’s trust. Again, it may not be intentional, but we have to acknowledge where we may have given information based on what we had at the time. That’s how we made the decision. Now that that was not the right decision, I’m going to come to you and say, “Hey, with this new bit of information I have, I apologize that it may have eroded trust. I want to work toward getting back to a harmonious place.” That’s going to feel better to me. I’m going to say, “You know what, I can trust this person because they’ve acknowledged where the breakdown happened. They’re willing to demonstrate and show that consistency—that trust is still a main character in the room.” I think that’s what people want. Because we also know that trust is going to break down, and we want someone to give us another chance to try to demonstrate what that looks like. Because again, we are going to have those moments, maybe using language we used to use that you're not using anymore. All those different things happen because our world is evolving. Language is evolving. Pretending that I’m not making a mistake or calling you the wrong name every time I see you now, because I don’t want to say it, so I’m going to avoid you in the break room—that’s not okay. That’s saying, “You know what, you’re going to give me a little more props for trying to say Minda as opposed to ignoring you.” I think, again, there are all these little moments where erosions take place, and we have to ask ourselves, “Is this an opportunity for growth? How would I want somebody to engage with me?” I think we forget that human piece oftentimes with trust. Paula Edgar: Yeah. I think the first part in all of that, what you said, is accountability. Oftentimes with power and with title, folks think that they don't have to be accountable to certain people. I think that sets you up for a lack of trust, and having humility and being able to say, “I messed up, and I'm going to try to do better as I go forward,” that's a people skill, definitely a management skill, absolutely a leadership skill that we should all be trying to demonstrate. I asked my son yesterday, I said, “What's the word that you think Mommy says all the time?” He's like, “I can’t have an idea.” I was like, “That's right. That's correct.” I say accountability because we need to be accountable as human beings. We are going to make mistakes, and we've got to acknowledge them and try to do better as we go forward. So speaking of the do better, thinking about it from the individual perspective, what's the first step that someone can take if they want to demonstrate trust and credibility? What are some of the things you think that they should be doing first? Minda Harts: Yeah. I think part of it is, if you work with other people—and most of us do in some capacity—is to say, “What do you need from me to do your best work while you're here?” Paula Edgar: Oh, that's a great question. Minda Harts: That's going to open up the door, and they may not know what the trust languages are, but they're going to say one of those things, a few of those seven trust languages, without necessarily knowing it. Or, “I really value our relationship, and I want to make sure that we're at the top of the trust scale. What more do you need from me?” That’s again going to open up that space. Then, if they're a good human being and a good colleague, they're going to say, “You know what, thanks for asking. What do you need from me?” Now we're going to be able to close this expectation gap. You might find, “Okay, Paula told me that she needs more clarity and honesty. She needs me to be a little more transparent.” Now that I know that, I can do that. Trust is going to beget trust. Then maybe I tell you, “Hey, I actually need more feedback after we finish a project. Is that something we can work on? Can we calendar a conversation right after we finish that sprint?” Now that you know I need that, where trust is the center, we can have a better working relationship. I think that’s what we need. We need the tools to be able to communicate better with each other. Even when we have to have tough conversations, I can still keep your humanity and my dignity intact. Paula Edgar: It's so true. You know, when I've done inclusive communication sessions, I often remind people that we don't have one communication style. Particularly when you are managing or leading teams, you have to think about what each individual needs. That is the hardest piece. So I'm thinking about this in this perspective too—understanding what their trust language is and how you have to modulate communication for each person in order to bring out the best of them for the relationship. That's hard. Minda Harts: It takes work. Trust takes work. Paula Edgar: It does. Perhaps when folks are thinking about some of these things that people think of as soft skills—which I think are concrete skills that we need in order to evolve and also to have a good brand and be regarded well—it is hard. It's not supposed to be easy. It's work for a reason. But I think being intentional can make it so much less fraught than we make it to be. People complain all the time about all that they have to do. It's like, but it's also the people on the other side—all that they have to be. How do we come together to do and be harmoniously? I love this framework. I love this framework. Minda Harts: Thank you. Paula Edgar: All right. So we're sitting here, you're in L.A., I'm in New York City, and we are defining what has happened for us since 2020, which is the hybrid is here to stay. What are some of the things that people can do to signal that they are trustworthy when you're not in the same room? Sometimes you can feel like, “I got the right feeling,” but when you're not in the same room, are there some skills and ways that you can demonstrate that you are trustworthy and that you want to build trust in a hybrid format? Minda Harts: Yeah, this is a great question because vibes can only take us so far. Paula Edgar: Exactly. Minda Harts: Okay. So I would say the trust language of follow-through is probably going to be key here. That’s that consistency in doing what we say we’re going to do. Because here’s the reality: we can’t just always walk down the hall to your cube, to your office, and say, “Hey, can I get that Johnson document?” So if I tell you on email or on the phone that I’m going to get that to you by five o’clock, and now it’s eight o’clock, and now it’s the next day, I’m not going to trust you that you’re able to deliver on the things that you said you’re going to deliver on. If that’s a consistent theme with you, I’m going to start to create this narrative that you’re not trustworthy. “I can’t depend on you.” Therefore, your credibility—when you tell me you’re going to do something—or one of those people, maybe one of us, are those where we say yes to everything. We know we have too much on our plate. Our intention is to do the thing, but every time we say yes to something and then we can’t close the loop, we’re eroding trust with somebody, and they’re side-eyeing us. But also, following through is about saying—back to your accountability piece—“You know what? I thought I could get this to you at five. I’m looking at my schedule now. Could I get two more hours to finish that? Would that be okay with you?” I’m closing the loop with you so that you can still see me from a trustworthy standpoint. You’re like, “Okay, I appreciate that they followed up with me.” That’s better than ghosting me or keeping me on workplace read. I think it’s important for us to keep our word. That’s all we have sometimes when we’re working globally. You’ll appreciate it—your word is your bond. We used to say that a lot. I think follow-through is going to be important, especially for managers. If you tell your direct reports that we’re going to have a conversation about compensation in our next one-on-one, and now you keep canceling the meeting because you don’t want to have the conversation, I’m also going to create a space to say, “I can’t trust them. They’re not committed to my upward mobility,” which may or may not be true. But if you can’t have the conversation, or "Based on the current climate, right now we won’t be able to talk about the compensation, can we talk about this in about six months?” I can trust you a little bit because now you’re at least following through on the things that you said. I think that goes a long way with our colleagues, especially when we don’t see each other physically day to day. Paula Edgar: What I pulled from that—I’m like, the trust is in the follow-through. It really is, in how you’re demonstrating, how you’re being consistent, and how you’re making sure the communication is not leaving them on workplace read. That should be a T-shirt. We're talking about this hybrid place that we’re in, there’s also a portion of this that really has to do with cross-cultural connectivity too. I have a good friend, and she works for a company that is Asia-based. She’s like, "There are things that I have to do virtually that I don’t have to do virtually with folks within the United States because it is looked at as respect or disrespectful." So this is a really important framework, I think, in even thinking about being an inclusive leader. I love that you’ve put this resource together that can be used in so many different ways. It’s just fantastic. Now, we’re living in a terrible world right now. Sorry. We have AI, we have misinformation, we have fake news. A lot of that is shaping so much of what we see. Why do you think that, because of that framework and because of everything that we have going on, it’s even more important now to intentionally be building trust—both one-on-one and in team relationships? Minda Harts: Yeah. You know, let’s be honest. Your company might put a mandate out that completely erodes trust to some degree, or make decisions that you don’t have any clarity or honesty around. But on a micro level, we still can make trust the catalyst on each and every one of our teams. Manners can still exist. Humanity can still exist. I think it’s important—even more so now—that transparency is probably the second most important language, because if AI is a tool that we’re going to use, it’s important that we have some clarity around that. To also say that we’re going to make sure that we’re upskilling so that you aren’t left behind. There’s still a place for you at this company. I’m not going to just let you be fearful all day long while we talk about all these things. Because again, that’s going to prohibit you from being productive and being your best at work. I think because we’re so conflict-averse, Paula, we don’t want to have the tough conversations. But people—Jack Nicholson said, “You can’t handle the truth.” We can handle the truth. We want the truth. That’s going to help us make better decisions for ourselves, but also for our workplaces. So I think now is the time where we get to reset and we get to make trust part of the equation, because there’s so much going on. Again, no workplace is going to be successful without that human connection. We have to take away that ambiguity and stop doing things that erode trust. I believe that this is an opportunity for each of us. Trust is a choice. We get to choose that each and every day, even as the workplace is evolving. I mean, look at the Industrial Revolution, right? There’s always going to be a time for evolution, but we can still make trust the center and keep it the nucleus. Paula Edgar: I love that. I love that trust is a choice. As we were thinking, a couple of times in this conversation you have said that people are conflict-averse. It’s so true. I think that we have a problem when it comes to being passive-aggressive in the workplace, and people considering passive aggressiveness as nice versus being kind and direct. Because passive aggressiveness makes people not trust you. So I love that it’s Talk to Me Nice. It’s really “talk to me nice and talk to me kind so that we can trust each other.” Clearly, I’m triggered because I’m thinking about my passive-aggressive bosses that I had. Anyway. Minda Harts: I mean, but you said it, Paula. You know, I have so many people who are writing me and saying, “I know you wrote this for the workplace, but I’m actually using it with my kids too,” because I need to show up in a way that they hear me, that they see me, and then I see them. I think this is important because, at the end of the day, we all just want to be trusted. But trust doesn’t just happen because we click our heels two times and bring our title into the room. Trust has to be demonstrated. Again, we get to decide what type of leaders we want to be going forward. Paula Edgar: I love that you brought the context of parenting because any relationship—to your point—trust is a bedrock of whether it goes well or not. I come from the parenting of “you do what I say because I tell you to say it.” As I look and think about how I have evolved as a person and a parent, a part of it has been to, I don’t know, ask my kids what they think, which was not a part of it. I didn’t have that. I’m always like, "You know how lucky you are?" Minda Harts: So lucky. Paula Edgar: But it’s a part of demonstrating trust in all of the different capacities. I can see so many different uses for this. I was just, as you were talking about upskilling in the AI context, thinking about trust when you have—what is it—six generations in the workplace. It’s such an important piece because the Gen insert-here and Gen over-here groups, there’s a lack of trust because they’re not communicating in the same way, and they haven’t been. I cannot wait for people to hear and be more part of this because I can see it leveraged in so many different ways. This is so key. All right. Allyship. Part of how people think about showing up in places—hopefully it’s not Throwback Thursday on allyship—but wanting to be an ally and wanting to show up in a way that’s trustworthy and authentic. So I want to think about a leadership perspective. How can leaders make sure that their brand is not performative in terms of being perceived as performative in allyship, but really grounded in an authentic trust? Minda Harts: Yeah, I think that’s important because I think trust has been eroded in many spaces and places because of performative action. “Oh, we thought because they said X, that must mean that this is going to happen.” Now we see that it hasn’t. So I think the language of demonstration—the behavior around it—it’s the show and the tell. I’m not going to just keep doing the tap dance, but you don’t see any there there. I think that’s what people want. If I say that women are important in this environment, in the workplace, we value women leaders—but you see that our last seven hires have been men—that’s not demonstrating that our values align with what we say we are. So now, as a woman who’s been in your management training program, I’m not seeing the progression. I’m not going to trust that maybe this is a space for me. But here’s where trust is so beautiful, Paula. If you notice that we did say that, a leader comes up and says, “You know what? We did say that we want to make sure that we have 50/50 parity, and we have not done a good job of that. Here’s what we’re doing to rectify that.” As someone in the community who identifies as a woman, I’m going to say, “Wow, I appreciate our CEO calling a spade a spade.” Here’s what they’re doing to put us back in. It’s the demonstration. It’s allowing me to see that the next hire in the C-suite is a woman. That feels good for me. I think that we have to demonstrate, even if we’ve made a mistake, because we are. It’s the demonstration. It’s the behavior. Can we do something different? Is there a policy or a procedure that can demonstrate that what we say our values are aligns with that? I think each and every one of us can do that day to day. I don’t need to know what your trust language is, Paula, for me to demonstrate what trustworthy should look like. Paula Edgar: I love how you laid that out. I’m just thinking about what’s happened even in this past year where organizations retrenched and decided to pivot given what was happening in the world. For those of you who are in the United States, a lot of things changed. But as I think about this question, leaders can still—even if the enterprise has shifted in terms of what they’re saying or what their commitments have been—leaders can still be impactful. This is where sponsorship and good leadership can come in. On an individual level, and then hopefully that becomes a part of the culture, even if what’s being said from the top is not the same as it was before. I think that’s really what we have to rely on, because clearly, a lot of places and spaces are prioritizing money and other things versus people. But I want people who are listening, thinking about this framework, to know that they can use this themselves to be the leader that they wanted and that they should be, despite all of the other pieces that are happening. Minda Harts: Yeah. Can I add to that, Paula? Paula Edgar: Yeah, please. Minda Harts: You inspired me when I was thinking about this. For example, let’s say that in the new year we’ll be celebrating Women’s History Month or, in some places, Black History Month or whatever the celebration is for that month—mental health, right? This is an opportunity, even if the company isn’t celebrating as a whole as it once did, to say to everybody who may identify as one of those groups, “Hey, I just want to let you know you’re valued here. You’re part of the team no matter what is going on in the world. Thank you for your contributions.” That’s going to sit well with me and be like, “Okay, I can trust this person that I report into because they see me.” They’re not pretending that there’s nothing to see here. I think that goes a long way. Again, trust is a choice. We don’t have to wait for the million-dollar initiative to come down the pipeline to say somebody’s name in the room that they’re not in—to give them another bite at the apple. That’s something that each of us can do to usher in trust. Hopefully, that’ll trickle down to the rest of the departments over time. Paula Edgar: Yeah. No, that’s powerful. All right, so we talked all this trust stuff. I want to ask you some personal things. Minda Harts: Let’s do it. Paula Edgar: Who is on your personal trust squad? Are there two or three people that you turn to no matter what? Minda Harts: I know it probably sounds really cliche, but in the current climate—God. I’m going to hit— Paula Edgar: 100%. Minda Harts: I’m like, “Lord, deliver us from all this evil.” Paula Edgar: That part. Minda Harts: But I would say that people—and I think it sometimes changes who my top eight are—but I think that those who demonstrate to me… I will say this: I know that I can always go to my mom with certain conversational topics, or I can go to a brother or my dad. I do lean on family for things because they know me in more intimate ways than other people do, so I value that. But then also there are people in my past life that I worked with who still serve as mentors and sponsors. And podcasts like yours—those trusted places where I’m going to get the information and the resources to be my best self. Paula Edgar: Yeah. I mean, this is essentially your trust squad—it’s like your personal board of directors. It’s the people who you know that you can rely on, that you can go to, who can tell you the truth, and that you can trust their perspective and that they care about you and your outcomes and the ways in which you’re navigating that. For branding, who you have in your squad is one of the most important pieces in terms of making sure you stay consistent to who you are and then also to help lift you as you’re continuing to grow. So I want all of you to remember—and we’ll make sure to put this in the show notes—that that personal board of directors framework is a really important one in thinking about this. I thought about this in terms of this trust—the “who I trust.” I have my layers, my personal board of directors. I’m like, “Okay, you’re now an advisory, but you’re coming for this year because these are the goals that I have.” Minda Harts: Absolutely. Paula Edgar: So what about this—you know, you are a hip-hop fan. We have that in common. If you had to name one hip-hop artist whose brand screams trustworthy, who would it be and why? Minda Harts: That’s a really good one. You know, now this may be an unpopular or popular opinion, Paula, I don’t know. Paula Edgar: Go for it anyway. Minda Harts: But what I will say is Pharrell Williams. I think that Pharrell has been very consistent with his brand. I remember when I was in high school and kind of, but it’s evolved. He’s still that skater boy, but elevated, right? He’s still giving us Louis Vuitton and the t-shirt. You can trust that he’s going to amplify the old and bring in the new. I like how he’s a bridge connector. I think that’s what’s important about trust. And generationally, I think he brings people to the table. So I appreciate how he shows up with his cultural influence. Paula Edgar: You know, this was one of the questions I was like, “Okay, we’ll see what she says.” I think that’s a perfect person. When I thought about this, the first person—the only person—that came to mind for me was Queen Latifah. Minda Harts: Yeah, that’s a good one. Paula Edgar: I was like, she came in front of me like, “I am the person who is true.” I thought to myself, "Well, she’s queen. I can see her in a little hat in terms of consistency." Minda Harts: She is, yeah, I think we all trust Queen Latifah, right? Paula Edgar: She’s also The Equalizer, so there’s that. Okay, well, how about this? Lots of celebrities’ brands have taken hits. Is there somebody where you think of a celebrity whose brand took a hit from a trust violation? What do you think is one thing they could have done to rebuild it? Minda Harts: You know, I typically don’t like to name a name, but I can name a name because I’ve written about this person in my book. I would definitely say Kanye West. I think his brand has taken a hit. I grew up in Chicago, so I can also say that this hurts because this was somebody who I think was very culture-forward at one particular point. They’ve totally skewed the opposite way. I think it’s hurt their brand in ways that it’ll take a long time to rebuild for sure. Paula Edgar: Yeah. I remember when everything was happening during the pandemic and with COVID and vaccines, et cetera. I remember several hip hop people came out and were like, “Don’t take the vaccine.” I was like, “Oh no, how can I listen to your songs? I’m trying to stay safe.” So it also makes me think about the fact that you can have a really consistent and strong brand, and then you can do one thing. You can say something that will totally shift someone’s perspective on you based on them realizing what your values are that they didn’t have access to before. Minda Harts: Yeah. You know, if not for nothing, I’m glad—even though I know it’s a crazy, chaotic time—but that we get to learn about people’s values and alignment. Because I think we support a lot of people, and we don’t know what they think in a lot of different ways that aren’t congruent to our values. Paula Edgar: It’s so true. Values are a core piece of how—I think we connect on values. That’s where that trust comes in. One of the things that I asked when I asked you the first time you were on the podcast is, what is that unshakable thing that you will never compromise on? It’s in alignment with trust. It’s that you want to be somebody who is going to be dependable. My last question for you—I can’t believe this time has gone by so quickly—is you always talk about, and I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, that you’re somebody’s workplace best friend in their head. Who is that friend in your head that you have, even though you may not have met them personally? Minda Harts: I recently met this person, and they were a friend in my head, and I still see them that way. I would say Kim Scott, the author of Radical Candor, because I think that what she did was revolutionize how we can be more direct with our feedback, but in a way that still upholds dignity. I love how she shows up with her brand. If you’ve ever seen her speak, she has a uniform and all these different things. She definitely was a friend in my head, and we’ve become friendly in real life. Her brand is on point with meeting her. They say never meet your heroes, but I do believe that if trust and values are there, then you should always meet your heroes. Paula Edgar: Oh yeah, and I love that. That’s a perfect soundbite. In thinking about this for myself, I thought, I have so many. I have a whole tribe of friends in my head. Oprah, obviously, comes toward me quickly. But truthfully, in this past year since I’ve read this book, Mel Robbins has been a friend in my head. I’m like, “Let them do them, stop them, everybody’s there.” Because—and I think I told you this—I love, because I have ADHD, I like to read and listen to people in audiobook. It’s one of the ways in which I began to think of you as a friend in my head, because I listened to you with both of your books. For me, Mel Robbins is that way as well, because I was like, “Yeah, exactly, just saying it the way that I would say it too.” It really does help build this. So I am really, really pleased that you’ve written this book. I cannot wait for everybody to get their hands on it. All of you, go tell a friend to tell a friend—especially the one you know is not trustworthy—that they need to read this book. Minda, tell everybody how they can stay in contact with you and let them know about all the things that you are doing. Minda Harts: Yeah. Well, again, thank you for seeing me and trusting me to come back on. I’m glad that my values still align with yours so that we’re on the right track. Find me on LinkedIn. Follow me, bring me in to talk about The Seven Trust Languages. I created an interactive game that goes along with industry focused on how to assess what languages work best to get us closer to a more trusted outcome. I believe that trust is on the horizon for all of us, and again, trust is a choice, so find me on LinkedIn, go to mindaharts.com. Paula Edgar: Fantastic. Minda, as wonderful as you always are, you continue to impress and continue to build my trust in you. Thank you for spending some time in the Branding Room. Everybody, like I said, tell a friend to tell a friend and stand by your brand. Bye, everybody. That's it for this episode. I appreciate you hanging out with me on Branding Room Only. Now, please do me a quick favor: head over to ratethispodcast.com/branding so more people can join this conversation. And make sure to stop by at paulaedgar.com/events to see what's next. Whether I'm live, online, or in person, I'd love to see you there. See you next time in the Branding Room. And until then, stand tall, shine bright, and always stand by your brand.