How to Reframe Your Brand for Board Service with Sonya Olds Som
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Description
Wanting to be on a board and being ready for board service are not the same thing. Some people spend years building relationships, understanding governance, and positioning themselves as trusted advisors. Others rush the process and undermine their credibility before a real conversation even begins. Sonya Olds Som, Global Managing Partner and leader of the Legal, Risk, and Compliance Practice at DSG Global, conducts executive and board searches across industries. In this episode of Branding Room Only, Paula T. Edgar and Sonya break down what truly signals board readiness, why mindset matters as much as experience, and how your personal brand either builds trust or raises red flags in the boardroom.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why board service requires a shift from operator to advisor — and how to translate your expertise into strategic business value
What makes a board bio and LinkedIn profile credible (and the common mistakes that quietly disqualify candidates)
How relationships, timing, and judgment shape your board trajectory long before your first seat
If you’ve been saying you want board service, this conversation will help you assess whether your brand is actually aligned with that goal — and what to do next if it’s not.
Chapters
1:10 – The best piece of professional advice Sonya has received, habits that keep her focused, and one surprising fact about her
3:19 – Why Sonya wouldn’t consider practicing law again and one small joy she always fits in weekly
5:29 – How the boardroom impression “nose in, fingers out” changes the way you talk about your expertise and value
10:39 – Motivations that signal true readiness for the responsibility of board service
12:20 – The kinds of people boards are always looking for and how opportunities have opened up in the last few years
15:14 – How to pivot to make yourself attractive to boards with less directly-connected experience than what they typically look for
17:56 – How to answer tough experience questions in an interview without selling yourself short or pretending to be something you’re not
19:53 – Biggest mistake people make when trying to turn their resumes into board bios
21:24 – One of the best ways to prepare yourself to be a board member (and why treating it as “easy money” is a bad move)
26:32 – What a board candidate’s LinkedIn profile should incorporate to signal they’re ready
29:28 – What you should NOT be doing on LinkedIn when looking for a board role (or in general)
34:10 – Ways to maximize your visibility and presence without oversharing or feeling like you're self-promoting too aggressively
36:38 – The “Ferris Bueller factor” that may matter more than any board readiness credential you collect
41:39 – How nonprofit boards, school communities, and passion projects can quietly position you for paid board opportunities
45:07 – How board readiness programs (though not necessary) can benefit you
48:11 – General mistakes you should avoid when positioning yourself to be a board member
52:41 – How to approach your first board seat so it strengthens, rather than strains, your personal brand and your life
55:49 – What you need to know about the way recruiters usually work
Connect With Sonya Olds Soms
Sonya Olds Som serves as the Global Managing Partner, leading the Legal, Risk, and Compliance executive search practice group at DSG Global (Diversified Search Group), a full-service, Forbes-top-ten-ranked, executive search, consulting, and convening firm. Her clients run the gamut from global Fortune 50 corporations to small, emerging companies, to non-profit and higher education institutions, seeking senior executives and board directors for critical positions, and she is often called upon to advise on issues of inclusive leadership and succession planning. In addition to regularly writing for and being interviewed by the media, Sonya has co-developed and co-led many key initiatives and events nationwide focused on advancing inclusive leadership objectives in the legal industry and beyond.
Sonya is an active member of many professional organizations, including the National Bar Association (NBA), the Metropolitan Black Bar Association of New York (MBBA), the Black Women Lawyers Association of Greater Chicago, and the Economic Club of Chicago, several of which (including the NBA and MBBA) have honored her for her work. Sonya has served as an advisor to several nonprofit organizations, including as a member of the board of Girls Inc. of Chicago, a member of the Kalamazoo College Alumni Association Engagement Board, and a member of the board of the Cornell Black Lawyers Alumni Network (CBLAN), as well as CBLAN’s Midwest Chapter Chair. Sonya earned her bachelor’s degree with honors in English at Kalamazoo College and her Juris Doctor degree at Cornell Law School. She lives in Chicago with her husband, son, cat, and dog.
Mentioned In How to Reframe Your Brand for Board Service with Sonya Olds Soms
The Strategic Power of Intentional Connection with Sonya Olds Soms
Trailblazing Change (Part 1) and Part 2 with Ben Wilson
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This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.
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Transcript
Paula Edgar: Welcome to Branding Room Only, the podcast where your personal brand gets a front-row seat. I'm Paula Edgar, and if you're here, it's because you know your brand isn't just about what you do. It's about how people experience you. In each episode, you'll hear stories, strategies, and lessons from leaders and influencers who built their brands and made their mark. And I'll share the tools you need to do the same. Let's go.
Hi, everybody. It's Paula Edgar, and I'm excited to welcome you back to the Branding Room. Today, I'm joined by my friend, Sonya Olds Som, who is Global Managing Partner and leader of the legal, risk, and compliance practice at DSG Global. A significant part of Sonya's work is conducting board searches across industries, and she has written and spoken insightfully about what it truly means to prepare for board service and what it takes. So I'm excited to bring her back on the podcast because this is something that many of you have been asking for. So, Sonya, welcome back to the Branding Room.
Sonya Olds Som: Thank you, Paula. It's a pleasure to be back.
Paula Edgar: I'm so excited. Okay, so because people know who you are already because they're going to listen to podcast number one and the redo, I'm going to start with some rapid-fire questions rather than my usual. Tell me, what is the best piece of professional advice you've ever received?
Sonya Olds Som: The best piece of professional advice I ever received was actually from my mom, who's not a professional, but she's wise, wise, wise. She told me, "Do not get too comfortable when you are down because forces are already in motion to bring you up. When you're up, don't get too comfortable being up because forces are already in motion to bring you back down. The important thing is to have faith in the valley."
Paula Edgar: She's wise, wise, wise, wise. Okay. What is one habit or ritual that keeps you focused?
Sonya Olds Som: Meditation. Honestly, rest, drinking my water, meditating. Incredibly important every day. Journaling.
Paula Edgar: What is something that people are always surprised to learn about you?
Sonya Olds Som: People are surprised to learn that I'm very shy and introverted. I think you believe that because next to you, anybody is shy and introverted next to you. But the reality is that I really have to push myself, as you know, Paula, to go out and to do things. I really have to gear myself up.
Even though I have a theater background, every time before I would go on stage, every time before I make a presentation, I'm nervous. I'm trying to think of some way to not do it and get out of it every single time. I'm always so glad after it's over. I'm just like, "Oh, my God."
I think that because I'm able to, and a lot of theater people, a lot of actors are that way, you just wouldn't know it because you're able to turn it on. But I also think that because of the social media aspect, which is frankly designed for introverts, it makes people think that I'm outside and doing a lot more than I'm doing when, in fact, I'm doing like five things. But they're just really heavily well promoted.
Paula Edgar: Yes, you're very good at the documentation of what you are doing when you're outside.
Sonya Olds Som: I learned from the best, Paula.
Paula Edgar: So tell me, if you weren't doing search work, what would you be doing instead?
Sonya Olds Som: Well, I mean, I was a lawyer. I was a practicing lawyer and a pretty good one. Because I was in the labor and employment and immigration, HR space, that made for a natural transition into talent and recruiting. I don't think I'd ever go back to practicing law, nor do I think they'd have me. Every once in a while, a recruiter will try to reach out to me and be like, "Hey, I work for this law firm and I want to recruit you." I'm like, "For what?" And they're like, "You're a lawyer." I'm like, "I mean, I guess. I went to law school a long time ago."
It's just like, if you think I'm the lawyer to work for you, you actually need to hire me to recruit you some actual lawyers. Because I get confused now during episodes of Law and Order. I'll turn to my husband, who is not a lawyer and an engineer, and I'll be like, "Ooh, who's that guy?" And they'll look at me and be like, "That's the bailiff, and you're a lawyer." So I don't think I'm going back to the law.
But I will say that if somebody ever wanted to pay me to write and to speak and to teach and to perform in some way, I think that would make a terrific third act for me.
Paula Edgar: I think you'd be a really great comedian. You make me laugh all the time. So I'm just going to throw it out there that we could be watching you like Sonya Olds Som live.
Sonya Olds Som: [Inaudible], my dear, just wait like 20 years to cash it.
Paula Edgar: Okay. So what is one small joy you try to fit in your week no matter what?
Sonya Olds Som: Well, I will tell you, and I know this resonates for you, but frankly, every day I listen to Prince. Prince has got music for every mood. He's got your get hype music, "Baby, I'm a Star." I know that's your favorite. He's got your love music. He's got your sad music. If you want to have a good cry, he contains multitudes. So I will tell you that as part of my journaling and sleeping and meditating and napping and all of those things, there's almost always Prince playing.
Paula Edgar: It's the power of Prince. So let's jump into the conversation. Tell me, from your experience as a board recruiter, what does it really mean to prepare for board service today? And why do you think that candidates should think about this as a part of their personal brand strategy?
Sonya Olds Som: So it's funny. I was obviously primarily a legal recruiter for most of my career. Then a few years ago, I expanded my remit and transitioned into being a board recruiter in addition. So my day job, my major, if you will, is still legal recruiting, but my side job or my passion or my minor is board recruiting. That's not the same as my day job.
In a way, my own evolution in that way is very similar to what I see happen with people, especially lawyers or other professionals who now want to join a board. There's a foundation of what you do in your day job that is important, but you have to start looking at it through a different lens. You have to start thinking about how that's going to be of value, not with you as an operator, but as an advisor. There's an impression in the boardroom that's a nose in, fingers out.
So, for example, if you're a lawyer, you're not coming on this board to be their lawyer. They have a lawyer. That general counsel does not want you coming in being like, "Well, what I would think." So they want you to be able to show that you've taken that legal experience or whatever your day job experience is and contextualized that to make you a good business advisor.
So I think that transformation, and I speak a lot about lawyers because obviously you and I are both lawyers by background, that's just a basis. But everybody has to realize we all grew up in a specialty, and we all are very focused on that in terms of our day job and how we are known and get our living. That's great. From there, you have to figure out, but I'm not going to be doing this day job on the board. I'm going to be taking that experience and other experiences and synthesizing them in a way that is going to be helpful to advise this organization. Not run this organization, not do the day job, but advise them. Again, nose in, fingers out.
I think especially for those of us who are lawyers, who are very proud of the fact that we became lawyers, we're used to starting every sentence, "Well, as a lawyer." What you have to come to find out, and I know this as a recruiter of lawyers who works with CEOs and board members and recruiting lawyers for them, non-lawyers are shockingly uninterested in the fact that you are a lawyer. In fact, sometimes this is a hurdle you must overcome in terms of societal perceptions of lawyers through all the many lawyer jokes, but also through people's personal experiences with lawyers that maybe have not always been solicitous.
So you need to be able to show that a lot of things that people think about lawyers are not necessarily true or certainly are not true of you. One of the number one things that people think about lawyers is that we think we know everything already. We think our opinions are the most important ones in the room. We think everybody else is not as smart as we are. We think that being a lawyer is the end all be all.
The other thing that people tend to think is that we're not business minded, that we can just spout off regulations and we can write a brief and it'll be well punctuated and we can do all that research. But do you understand how we make money? Do you understand how this business makes money? Do you understand that the fact that you're an intellectual property lawyer or whatever is only important to me in as much as it has something to do with how this company makes money? How the company saves money, how this company makes more money, how this company is growing.
What you do is not important in and of itself. What any of us does is not important in and of itself. It's only important in terms of how it helps this organization. I think that there's a beginning process that, again, folks have to make where they understand, "I'm going to have to look at all of these substantive skills and recontextualize them and look at myself in a different way as a business person who has experience in all of these different things."
That's how I have to do my board bio instead of my resume, because they're not the same thing. That's how I have to have conversations with people who are going to be the decision makers. Because frankly, something like 40% of CEOs are lawyers by background. You never know it. They don't talk about it. They're more likely to talk about what they did to work their way through college than to talk about that time that they were an associate at a Biglaw firm. Because they have contextualized that as part of their foundation, but they've grown and they've broadened as a leader, as a manager, as all of these other things. Being a lawyer is just part of that framework.
Paula Edgar: When you think about that piece from the brand perspective, to your point that many lawyers come up and that is the title, that's the thing that they do. So they lead with the law, and it takes a little bit of humility and context and understanding, to your point, of what it is that this organization, this company needs from you in a board perspective.
So I know a lot of people, myself included, who are like, I want to be on a paid board. Pay me to be on a board. Number one, one of the things that you've said in the past is that you have to emphasize what the why is, right? I found a lot of people don't really have a good why connected to why they want to do it, that it's just a thing that they want to do. So what do you think are some of the motivations that signal true readiness for board service, and what motivations suggest that maybe somebody is not aligned with what it actually takes?
Sonya Olds Som: I mean, I do think, again, obviously, your substantive experience and having become excellent and risen to a certain level in your day job is important. But I also think your life experience, your connections, your relationships, your brand, your judgment.
Again, you're hopefully going to be looking at a board in terms of that why, where you bring your whole self in a lot of ways. There are a lot of different experiences and connections, relationships. There are a lot of different things that you can bring that will be of value to this organization, either in terms of what they know they're going to need from you now, as well as what they may come to need from you in the future.
Obviously, the technology and all the different changes that are happening in the world, and even the way organizations grow and change and expand new product lines and new markets that they want to get into. So you want to be able to show that you're a dynamic person whose experiences and values and goals are expansive enough, while you still have your specialties, to really be able to add a lot of different value to this organization.
Paula Edgar: So I'm going to pivot for a little bit because you went into the needing to show the connection and why the value and how you can have a perspective and really have a 360 versus just a narrow lane of who you are and how you add value. But we are both dynamic, fabulous lawyers and women of color.
I was reading something that said that current data shows that about one-third of new board appointments go to first-time directors and more than half to women. I'm wondering, in light of the world that we live in now, do you think that this is something that's going to continue?
Sonya Olds Som: I mean, I think there will always be moments. I think there will always be shifts. I think there will always be, oh, this is the skill set or this is the ingredient that we're all seeking right now. There are some universals. Boards are always looking for people with audit experience. They're always looking for people with financial acumen. They're always looking for CEOs. They're always looking for business unit heads. I mean, there are some universals there.
Yes, we've had some moments where all of a sudden there was a big push for inclusion. Some people who never had a chance to be on boards before had a chance to get a second look. You know, women, people of color, even people in functions that weren't generally thought of, people from the HR field. Yes, general counsels, lawyers. Just in the last five years or so, lawyers have had a moment where they've been able to, again, broaden and show that they can add value outside of being the lawyer and show that they can be in a C-suite role and show that they can be on a board.
So I think there are a lot of different dynamics to how these things shift. Of course, right now, anybody who's got any AI experience, anybody who's got any cyber experience, anybody who's got experience with policy and regulatory matters and tariffs and trades and all of the different things. I mean, there are moments where almost anything about you can become popular, and certain organizations need different things.
So, again, there's always going to be some universals. CEOs and CFOs and business unit leaders are always going to be in vogue. But I also do think that various organizations are going to need other skills and life experiences at different times. So a lot of it is really just continuing to figure out who you are and what's most important to you and what your value proposition is and where you really want to spend your time. Make sure you keep showing up in those spaces where you can connect with the organizations that will see your value.
Paula Edgar: That's, I think, an important perspective because, to your point, the boards are always looking at different things at different times, and sometimes that means cross-sector. Sometimes that means different topical knowledge and maybe experiential and just general experience, period.
What do you think that means in terms of translating your own trajectory? So somebody who maybe does not have the things you mentioned, so does not have the audit, is not a business leader, et cetera, but still is interested and wants to make themselves attractive in those spaces where they're showing up. What's a manner of pivoting, I won't say normal, but less directly connected experience to what a board might be looking for?
Sonya Olds Som: Well, it's interesting. I think people can be self-defeating, saying, well, I don't have this and I don't have that. But you don't know what they already have. So I'll take it back to the day job, for example. Just an example, a general counsel search. Someone will say, well, I don't have much securities experience and this is a public company role.
It's like, well, yes, that company may say we need someone with deep securities experience, we need someone with public company experience. But they may also say you have all the other things we need in abundance, and we have a deputy general counsel who's an amazing securities lawyer, and we have an outside law firm that's a terrific securities firm. All the other experiences that you have are more important to us because we don't have those things. What we do have is a strong deputy with securities experience, and we do have an outside counsel with strong securities experience. What we need is all the rest of the stuff you bring. So let's go.
So part of it is understanding what you have in the toolkit and what you don't have in the toolkit, but recognizing that your toolkit might be the right toolkit for an organization that already has those needs met elsewhere or, frankly, is willing to hire. I've had companies say, well, they don't have this and that, but we can hire somebody for that. They've got the IQ and the leadership and the gravitas and the management and communication and all these other skills that we really need. So the substantive specialty stuff, well, some of that we can get someplace else.
With boards as well, you have to remember this is a board of superpowers of multiple people. These are the X-Men. These are the Avengers. The Fantastic Four. We don't have to all be able to stretch. We don't have to all be able to turn invisible. At least one of us does. But as long as you can do your thing, it's clobbering time, right? So you just have to recognize that they may already have the person who does this other thing. That's not what they need from you. They're actually at a moment because they're going to be moving into a certain market or they're going to be going through, again, an AI transformation or whatever it is, where that's the superpower that they need from you.
The other thing I will say is that in an interview, I always want to see people try. So if I say to you in an interview, it's like, "Oh, Paula, do you have any P&L experience?" And you just say, "Nope." I'm sitting there and you're sitting there and we're looking at each other and a lone wolf howls in the distance and a tumbleweed rolls by.
I'm like, you know what? At least go down swinging. Anticipate I'm going to ask you that. Say, "No, in my day job, I have not had responsibility for X per se, but I have raised my hand within the company in order to be a part of this task force and this committee and this initiative. Outside of my day job, I take these courses. I've been training and working with and talking to these business leaders who have been giving me great insights. I've been taking these classes. I'm part of the boards of these nonprofit organizations where I'm involved with this and that. I do this mentorship."
So, again, tell me something. Will it be enough for you to get the job? Maybe. It depends on who else I'm interviewing. Right? But if it turns out I'm not interviewing anybody else who brings all the things to the table that you bring, and I think your skill set is worth it, and I see that you're inquisitive, you're hardworking, you're a continuous learner, I may say, "You know what, hey, none of these other people, even though they might have that, they don't have the other things that you do have. I'm confident that you can come up to speed on what you need to." So, again, don't sell yourself out. Yeah, you may still lose anyway. But, again, go down swinging.
Frankly, I'll remember that for the next opportunity because nobody knows everything on day one, right? Nobody knows it as an expert. There is no such thing as that. You have to show that you're the person who can rise to the challenge and is eager to do so.
Paula Edgar: So, okay, thinking about the brand assets that you have when you're looking to be on a board, what do you think makes a strong board bio stand out? And what kinds of mistakes do you see people make when they're trying to take their resume and make it boardy, board-esque, board-like?
Sonya Olds Som: Yeah, first and foremost, again, resumes talk about I did this, I did that, I did this, I did that. Whereas a board bio, again, is nose in, fingers out. You're not going to be doing this and doing that. You're going to be advising. You're going to be guiding. So you really have to change up your language and the lens through which you are looking at yourself and the way you take what you've done and turn it into, "This is what has given me the world experience, the life experience that allows me to be not as hands on, but allows me to be someone who can advise and lead and guide, influence as opposed to being the person who's hands on tactically doing things."
I think that's the number one thing that I see. Too many board bios read a little bit too operationally.
Paula Edgar: I think that makes sense because you're right that there's a lot of "I" in when you're trying to get a job versus a board. You're trying to show how you are going to, to use your cartoon/Avenger-type things, when you're going to put together like Voltron, they're not looking for you to do all the things, but to be additive to whatever the mission is of the board.
Okay, so if somebody is a candidate for a board and they want to signal that they're board-ready, what does that look like in practice, right? So we talked about in terms of the board bio, et cetera, but what are some of the things that people can do brand-wise, executive presence-wise, to signal that they're board-ready?
Sonya Olds Som: Well, frankly, I think we're presupposing that people are board-ready. The reality is one of the best things you can do is start having conversations with actual board members. Not, "Oh, you're on a board. Help me get on a board." But, "Wow, you're on a board. Tell me about that. What was your journey? When did you start thinking about it? What made you think you might want to be a board member? How did you go about it? How long did it take? What kinds of things did you do? What kinds of things would you recommend that I do? What kinds of things would you recommend I think about before I just start running around saying I want to be on a board?"
Because the reality is that you've got to take the bitter with the sweet. People think that being on a board is like, wow, they're going to pay me like one hundred thousand dollars. All I’ve got to do is show up to a couple of meetings. Yeah, right. The reality is that, frankly, if you're already an executive, there are probably easier ways in some ways to make money than to be on a board. There's a lot of risk. There's a lot of liability, and not just in terms of legal risk, because obviously, there's insurance and things for that, but reputational risk.
There's a lot of reading. There's a lot of being engaged as a board member and attending the meetings, especially if it's a public company. There's a certain number of meetings you have to go to. The reality is that you may think it's only four meetings a year or six meetings a year or what have you, but in an emergency, in a heightened situation, you may have to put in a lot more time than you think.
People think, "Oh, wow, I would love to be on the board." I know someone who's on the board. I got a chance to be on the board of a company in Australia. They were like, "Wow, this is my chance to be on a board in Australia. That's fantastic." Have you ever flown to Australia once a quarter?
Paula Edgar: No, I've never flown there at all.
Sonya Olds Som: You can get to the moon faster. To go there once a quarter and to still be also working a day job. So, again, people don't think about that. They don't think about the time away from their day job. They don't think about the time away from their family. They don't think about, again, the reputational risk. They think about, "Ooh, I'll be on a board and I'll make this easy money." And the reality is that it's a lot of work and it's a lot of commitment and responsibility, and not for the faint of heart.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from it but I think you should start from a place of asking yourself some tough questions, talking to your family, and again, talking to people who are trusted to you, especially people who are on boards themselves, share with you what their process was, the mistakes they made, the things they learned, and the bitter with the sweet, because there's always a tradeoff.
Paula Edgar: Yeah. No, you told me that years ago about talking to people who were on boards if I was interested. I started to do that. The amount of reading that people tell me that they had to do, I was like, "That's a lot." Then the subcommittees that they have to be on, too. So not just being on the board, but a lot of the boards that people I spoke to, they had mandatory that they had to be in another vertical someplace else within their board service, which requires more meetings. So, to your point, it's not just what you think about on the front, but it can be other things that are required.
So I do highly, highly recommend that you talk to people who are already doing it. Watch CLEs. Look at YouTube, people talking about these things so that you can have an understanding because I think it does seem sexy. Parts of it are like, "Oh, I'm on a public board, darling." I want to say that. Then also, I don't want to read seven billion pieces of paper all the time. So you have to decide from the station that you are in life, your other responsibilities, to your point, and then what your goals are, if that's a point when you are board-ready.
Sonya Olds Som: Having said that, you're having those conversations with people. They're helping you, frankly, to get ready, maybe. These are going to be the people who, if they think you're ready and they know you're interested and you've been sticking close to them, they may get a call about being on another board. They can't do any more boards. They don't want to do any more boards. They're boarded up, as we say. They can't take on any more boards.
And someone says, "Hey, well, do you know someone who shares certain characteristics, certain superpowers with you who you think might be interested and could be a good fit?" You want them to remember and to have been on this journey with you and to say, "You know what, I've been talking for a couple of years to someone who I think would be a terrific board candidate." I know a lot of people, especially for their first board, which is the toughest one to get on. Some board director who's been mentoring them as they think and work through this process now has them top of mind and feels confident in making an endorsement of them, either for their own board to join their own board or for another board that they're not interested in themselves.
Paula Edgar: So, you know, more than probably most, a lot of recruiters live on LinkedIn, right? And so what should a candidate's LinkedIn profile signal, if anything, if they're serious about board service? What are you looking for? What are the things that they should make sure that they have incorporated into their LinkedIn profile?
Sonya Olds Som: I'm looking for, for frankly anybody, a very understandable, clear narrative. Who are you? Again, we're all rich, complex, wonderful people with a thousand different things about us, but people can't remember all that. So what are the three to five things that you want to be known for? And what are the things that you're the best at, that you want to be known for, that you're the most passionate about, that you want to spend time doing in your spare time as a board member? What are the top-level three to five things?
And be very intentional about the keywords that you use, the group that you're involved in, the connections that you have. If somebody tells me, "I'm an intellectual property lawyer, I love intellectual property," and I go on their LinkedIn, no intellectual property to be found. No groups, no posts, no connections with other people in the space. You're like, "Oh, well, if you're an intellectual property lawyer in D.C., surely you must know this one, this one, this one that I do." I look, hmm, don't know any of them people. Not in any of those groups, not posting on any of those topics. In fact, I'm seeing a lot of posts about labor and employment law.
So what that says to me is that any port in a storm, you just try to get a job. That's fine. Again, we can all do all the things because we are lawyers. But at the same time, my client is looking for a very specific superpower. I need to know that you're about that life. I need to know that you're about that action. That first and foremost, that's what I'm going to get if you get brought to the table. All the other things will be a rich, wonderful surprise and add-ons.
So I think being very intentional and holding up that mirror to yourself and having the people that you know and trust, your personal board of directors, say, "You look at me, what do you see? What are my strengths? What would you hire me to do? What would you put me on? If you had a company, you could put me on a board, what would you think I'd be ideal for? What do you see me taking the most pleasure in?"
Even when I made my transition from practicing law into recruiting, I spent some time when I said, I don't want to practice anymore, but what should I do? I spent some time talking to people, saying, what do you see when you see me be at my best? When you see me be at my happiest? When you think of me and your Pavlovian response in a couple of seconds, what are the things that you think about me? And I took on a lot of that stuff.
Frankly, that's what led to me being a recruiter. They're like, "Sonya, you are a busybody who feels like she knows how everybody should run their life." I'm like, "Yeah, I am. I do."
Paula Edgar: LOL. What about mistakes that you see people making on LinkedIn when they are looking for either a board role or just generally? What are some of the things that you see, other than not being there or putting out the wrong thing where they're saying interest someplace else? Is there anything else that folks should be not doing, mistakes?
Sonya Olds Som: I think being too self-focused can be a problem on LinkedIn. Some people, frankly, don't like doing social media because they're like, "I don't want to talk about myself all the time." It's like, why should you be talking about yourself all the time? You can and should employ the buddy system. Have somebody else hype you up. Have somebody else say it was great reading so-and-so's article. It was great seeing so-and-so on a panel.
Hype other people up. Go, hey, congratulations on your new role. Congratulations. Oh, I loved your article. Oh, hey, have you read my friend's book? This book is terrific. So, again, people don't want to be involved with people who are utterly self-involved and don't give of themselves. I think you have to be aware of that, that that can be a mistake.
Frankly, people will connect with somebody on LinkedIn and 13 seconds later jump in the DMs talking about, "Hey, can I get on your board? Hey, can I get on your board?" And it's like, wow, that's not even going on a date. That's like meeting somebody online in a coffee shop and saying, "Nice weather we're having. Let's get married." What is this, 1930? Are you going to ship off to the war? I mean, can we have a coffee? Can we meet a couple more times? Can we go on a few good dates? Can we build a relationship? Have you seen a movie? Would you like to see a movie?
This is a relationship here. So that's a mistake. I can always tell people who are going to do that. I accept almost all LinkedIn connection requests because I'm like, hey, if you're a professional, you're a business person or whatever, chances are I can help you. You can help me at some point. We should be in each other's orbit. There are people who, 10 seconds later, are like, "Hey, I see you're connected to so-and-so CEO. Can you introduce me?" And I'm like, "Can you introduce you? I haven't even really met you yet."
Paula Edgar: That is a huge, huge mistake. I think this happened to me yesterday, that somebody used somebody else's name in an intro message to me on LinkedIn. So I immediately reached out to the other person who I knew. That person was like, "I don't know who that person is." I was like, "Oh, now I have to disconnect." Because now it wasn't even that the person was lying, but they were trying to act as if they had a connection that was deeper and not realizing how deep the connection I have with the other person was. I was like, "Uh-oh."
Sonya Olds Som: And they didn't ask first. They didn't ask first. I think that's because you will be embarrassed if you don't ask first. You would be amazed at the people who list people as references for me to call at the end of a search. It's like, well, the search process has gone great. Good job, everybody. We're going to make an offer to this candidate.
Now all Sonya has to do is check the references. These are references you gave me. I call this person, hey, I'm here to talk to you about Henry. Henry? Who's Henry? That's a name I haven't heard in a long time, a long time. I'm like, wow. They're like, I haven't heard from Henry in 10 years. I'm surprised he would even list me. In fact, the last time I did talk to him, this is what went down. I'm like, oh, no, Henry. "Oh, Henry."
So it's like before you introduce anybody to anybody, everybody has to turn their keys in my mind. Because now you are catching somebody unawares who may not want to say anything about you, may have other stuff going on in their lives. You don't know where they are. They could be in Istanbul, not Constantinople. You're like, oh, call so-and-so. So-and-so's on a slow boat around the Cape of Hope and you can't even get to that person. So again, always ask first. Somebody might tell you, "You know what, this is not really a good time, or you and I haven't really talked in a long time. Maybe we should get caught up before I would feel comfortable doing that." Again, take that extra step if you're not just throwing things to the wind and hoping that something sticks to the wall and actually want the desired result.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, I mean, the things that we think of as common sense so often are not actually common sense. People do wild things in the name of wanting to have an opportunity but are not strategic about it. That lack of strategy is actually a signal that you're not ready for whatever the role is, right? That you made this judgment, this decision that shows that you don't have the judgment that we want in either the board role or the actual role that we're putting you in. So yeah, that part.
Okay, so one of my favorite things, you know, is I help people understand their value and to amplify their visibility for hopefully opportunities. So when you think about a board pursuit, that is a visibility exercise. You've already mentioned, we talked about LinkedIn. You already talked about talking to people who are on boards to let them know and to get information. What do you think in terms of sharing?
You know, I haven't seen anybody be like, "Hi, I'm ready for a board on LinkedIn." But in person, I definitely have seen that interaction happen. But are there some ways where they can be strategic about upping the visibility, maximizing their presence without oversharing or feeling like they're self-promoting too aggressively? Any thoughts on that?
Sonya Olds Som: No, absolutely. So again, you want to dress for the job that you want to have, in a way, right? So what I say to, for example, a lot of lawyers who are like, "Okay, well, now I would like to move into another executive role, or now I'd like to go onto a board," it's like, okay, I'm not telling you to drop all the lawyer activities. I'm not telling you to disown all your lawyer friends. "Who are you? I don't know you." But I am saying leave some space, carve out some time to get involved in other activities that are where you want to go.
So if you want to be on a board, start hanging out with some board members, start listening to them, spending time with them, read what they read, go where they go to the extent that you can, really show up and be visible and engaged in these spaces. Frankly, if you have the opportunity to, for example, say you're a CFO or a GC, you want to be on a board, you're not on a board yet, but write an article about the CFO or the GC's relationship with the board and why it's important and why the GC or the CFO or the CHRO can be helpful to a board, and start making those connections in people's minds that you want to be a part of that world as well.
So, for example, when I started wanting to do board searches, yes, I still speak on legal panels. Yes, I still speak on legal webinars. But I also now write articles. You can see at least one that will be in the resources. I start writing articles. I start speaking on panels. I start doing webinars that bring my skill set and show why that has something to do with the board world. Start building that bridge between who I am and who I also want to start being known as.
Paula Edgar: Which is a part of the strategy. So you and I have had the opportunity to talk about a lot and do the Paula Sonya show, which we call it. We had a chance to talk at, you know, the NAWL General Counsel Institute about being board-ready and having your brand be board-ready. There were such good questions in there, a lot about that visibility piece. How do folks know? How are you going to get in front of the people who need to know? And obviously, you're a recruiter, so you're doing some of the things where you're finding folks.
How much is it you are being like, oh, I'm looking for this type of person, you find them on a LinkedIn search, or somebody says, oh, I know the right person? Or is it more them being ready, doing the things we're just talking about, and you finding them because they've done those things? Or is there no rhyme or reason to how it can happen? I'm curious to know.
Sonya Olds Som: I mean, I think it's a little bit of, or a lot of, all the things, that obviously if you have any kind of footprint at all in your area of specialty, of your industry, or what have you, we're going to find you. That's our job, is to find you if you have any kind of footprint at all. Your job is to make sure that you have enough of a footprint that makes us see that you're out there and that, again, you're really about this life.
So I'm seeing articles, I'm seeing panels, I'm seeing memberships, I'm seeing that you are actively engaged in this way, in this pursuit. But I think it's also important in terms of the relationship, because even if I find you, if I don't know you personally, or even if I do, we're always going to be looking for other people who can speak to what you've done. And frankly, maybe I don't find you even, but what you want is what I call the Ferris Bueller factor.
If you remember the Ferris Bueller's Day Off from the 80s, everybody in the movie, no matter who they were, they would say, "You know, there's really somebody you should talk to. Do you know Ferris Bueller? Have you met Ferris Bueller?" And so there is, in the legal world, something called inevitable discovery, that if you've got a good Ferris Bueller factor going, even if I don't directly find you, if you are really hitting your marks in terms of spending time in the right places and spaces with the right kind of people, inevitably one or more people will say, "Gosh, I have just the right candidate for you. Do you know Ferris Bueller? Have you talked to Ferris Bueller?"
I was talking to an executive the other day who, when he was trying to get his first big position, I don't know what he did, but I was sitting in an airport one Saturday morning, just scrolling through my phone, and all the emails started stacking on top of each other. "Sonya, I just want to let you know that I met the most terrific person yesterday. Do you know Ferris Bueller?" Next email. "Wow. Do you know Ferris Bueller? Because I met him at an event last week and he was fantastic." Email after email after email. Did I have anything for him that day? No. But every time anything came up later, I'm like, "Have I considered Ferris Bueller? Like maybe I should think of Ferris Bueller."
I mean, frankly, it means a lot to my clients when I am saying, "Yes, we found this person. Yes, we know them. We think they're great." But here's these five or six executives in these different walks of life, the head of this association, the managing partner of this law firm, this one, that one, this one, they all independently raved to me about this person and all said, "Hey, I have just the candidate that you want and that I want to endorse for this role, and it's Ferris Bueller."
The client is like, "Oh, all those people said that?" Because again, we're all trying to mitigate risk in terms of our decision. It can be very detrimental and expensive in a lot of ways to an organization to make a wrong hire or put a wrong board member on, especially if you're not particularly experienced in that role, not experienced board members. So having all these people say that other people trust, say, "Hey, this is the person for you," really helps people breathe easier in terms of taking that chance on you.
Paula Edgar: This reminds me of when I had Ben Wilson on my podcast. He said on the podcast, "Oh, Paula, your brand is personal branding." I was like, "Yes, it is." Somebody listened to that podcast and referred me to someone saying, "We've been Wilson's." I was like, oh my gosh, like the power of the podcast, had been Wilson, that they were connected with me about an opportunity specifically because he said that thing. So it was like my short, not as Bueller, but Bueller-esque experience. It really does work. It can be helpful when you help people shape the narrative about you too, right?
So often I have people introduce themselves and somebody says, like, "Tell me about yourself." They're like, "Well..." And I'm like, "Oh, you don't know about yourself?" That should be the easiest answer because it's you. Not even just saying what you do, but to tell a story so that it can be applicable to whatever that stakeholder might want to hear or what opportunity they might have, should you know what it is. I think that that is part of the narrative of being seen for a board opportunity, right? That you are talking about how you add value.
One of the things I wanted to ask you about this is this too. Many people want to be on a paid board, and most of the searches that you're doing are usually for paid board opportunities. Do you think that there's a benefit to being on a nonprofit or not-paid board in terms of showing your profile for those opportunities, for paid opportunities?
Sonya Olds Som: I do. I don't want to over-index on it because the reality is that a public company, a complex, large public company, is not going to say on its own that your nonprofit board on a small, not very complicated organization is the same. That's the experience that counts. But what I will say is that you've got to think in a more strategic way about it in terms of what skill sets, industry experience, geographic experience are you going to get within this board.
And also remember, there are other board members on this nonprofit board. So there may be for-profit board members on your nonprofit board. Most for-profit board members are also on nonprofit boards, either because they started on nonprofit boards or because they just also do nonprofit boards because those are things that they're passionate about. So if you have a chance to be on a nonprofit board, on one of these committees or different things, with somebody who's also on a for-profit board and they get a chance to see you in action and build a relationship with you, and of course, along the way, you let them know that I'm trying to get like you. I'd love to be on a for-profit board as well. That positions you very nicely, frankly, for at least the chance to get in the game and have those conversations and be on the radar screen.
I know a lot of people who started by saying, "Well, I got started by being on my alumni association's board. I got started by being on my kid's board. Because I was passionate about that, that was worth me spending my extra time because I'm a passionate alum. I'm passionate about my kid's education. I'm on my church's board. I'm on the board of what have you." I'm on a couple of nonprofit boards myself because there are organizations that I'm passionate about, Girls Inc. of Chicago and the American Writers Museum.
You have to realize that if you do the things that you're passionate about in areas where you can add value, even if they're nonprofit or what have you, the reality is that other people who are doing that have other connections outside of the connection that you have together. So you're going to be able to gain some experiences that may be transferable, but certainly there can be relationships and visibility from promoting those activities that can bring you to the attention of folks who are where you want to be and can help you get there.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, not enough people, I should say, think strategically about how to leverage places where they do have visibility and connections to the opportunities that they want. They think of things as very narrow-minded. Some of you have heard on the podcast that I say that I can network everywhere, but I really don't like school networking. I don't like school networking, meaning my kids' schools. I just don't.
But I was talking to somebody the other day who was saying, "Oh yeah, Johnny at blah, blah, blah school." I was like, "Johnny at school. What about them?" And he's like, "Oh yeah, that person does this, this, this." I was like, "Oh."
So there's no place where there's not a shared connectivity where you cannot potentially find opportunity because of the shared experience that you're on. That's why I love arts boards. That's why I like to do things related to schools and experiences that you had, because they can make people want to do things more for you because of those connections and they see you in a different light.
But speaking of seeing people in a different light, what about these board readiness programs, like these associations that help you to understand what it means to be a board member? Are those things necessary for folks to be able to get on a board? Should someone choose a specific one? Tell me a little bit more about that. Do you think that as a helpful runway?
Sonya Olds Som: I mean, are they necessary? Not necessarily. For example, does Beyoncé have to go take a program in order to get on somebody's board? Of course not. Assuming you're not Beyoncé or someone of a Beyoncé caliber who's got a proven brand and track record where obviously I want you on my board, the reality is that there are things that can help.
There are programs geared toward, designed toward almost every possible different niche, if you will, in terms of your own background and interests. I think that they can provide a good grounding. I think they can give you good homework, a good framework to start learning about this world, which is a different world, the world of governance, the world of boards, all of these different terms and things you're not familiar with. So I think it's good in a primer kind of way.
But once again, I think the other importance, frankly, is the networking. The networking. Some of the people who are participating in these programs, either as instructors or as fellow participants, they may already be on boards. They may already be connected to people on the kinds of boards that you might be a good fit for. Frankly, it also just signals to the world that this is something that you're interested in and that you're willing to be curious about and really dedicate yourself to it seriously and be prepared, as opposed to just saying, "Ooh, board sounds great. Give me the money."
So I do think that, no, is there necessarily a one-to-one correlation? But these programs do value their ability to say, hey, we help our members get on boards. They provide lists to different interested folks who are looking for certain kinds of candidates. They provide networking opportunities. They provide visibility. They provide the education piece. They provide feedback and help on the board bio and things like that.
So again, I think in terms of a framework of intentionality, of getting yourself ready and putting yourself in the right place, I think they can be helpful. I just don't think that people should over-index on them. But also, I don't think you should dismiss the variety of ways that it can give you exposure and great contacts.
Paula Edgar: Yeah. All of you listening and watching should be going out and posting on LinkedIn about how you listen to this fantastic conversation on Branding Room Only with Paula and Sonya about board readiness, because number one, it's going to give them the context about all these wonderful things that we're sharing, but also show that you're interested in it because you listened, right? So again, being strategic, being thoughtful is a helpful thing.
What about mistakes? We talked about LinkedIn mistakes, but what about mistakes generally that you might see board candidates making when they are trying to position themselves for board roles, whether it's in the outreach, the materials, or how they talk about themselves? What are some mistakes that folks should be avoiding?
Sonya Olds Som: Oh gosh, I have seen people walk right up to the general counsel or the CEO of a company at an event and say, "Oh my God, I love your company. You should put me on your board. I'd be great on your board." Sometimes people don't take that well. Frankly, it doesn't demonstrate the judgment or the gravitas that folks are looking for. So that would not be the right approach. "Your board" is not the right approach, I think.
Again, trying to develop an organic relationship with the person, trying to develop an organic relationship with the folks around that person, and certainly letting it be known that you would be interested. But again, unless you're in a position where you have a real strong, direct line to this person, just being a stranger, unless you're Beyoncé, who can do whatever she wants, I don't think you're going to find the results that you want. In fact, it'll end up being a turnoff.
In fact, it makes folks wonder, is this how this person is moving through the world? Is this how the person is representing their day job? Is this how they operate? Because I don't think that this is the style that would do well with our organization. So now someone that they might have considered at some point, if approached in the appropriate way, now is like a definite no because of judgment.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, you and I have had many conversations about folks' judgment and how they've lost opportunities and such because of that. So yeah.
Okay, so when thinking about board alignment and choosing a board, a lot of times it's compared, and you've compared it yourself, to dating, right? So if that's the case, what kinds of things can candidates do to ensure that the board that they're looking for, want to be on, aligns with their values, their goals, and of course their brand when they're searching?
Sonya Olds Som: Again, starting with that self-reflection. Start with the man in the mirror. Ask him to make a change. No, but really, self-reflection. Who am I and who am I not, right? Who do I want to be, right? And so you start with yourself, but again, I think we start with the people around you.
I think you start with the people that you know and respect and who you know care about you and whose judgment you really value and ask them to help you with that self-assessment piece. I think that's really important. I also think it's important, if you are in a current day job, do not just start running around telling everybody that you want to be on a board without being really clear that your manager, be it the CEO of the company or whoever it is, be real clear that they would be cool with you doing that right now.
Because frankly, I've had some CEOs say, "Yeah, my CFO or GC or whatever is running around telling everybody they want to be on a board. Guess what? They're not actually knocking the day job out of the park. So I think they'd be nice to be up here right now."
Again, that shows bad judgment. This is not the right time. Everything is on fire. This is not the time for this person to be running and trying to get on the board. But so I think you got to think about that. People don't talk to their spouses. You want to do what? We got five kids and you're not here now. What? And this morning, where is Perth? What's up, Perth? Australia?
So again, people don't think. They're eager and they want to just throw themselves right in without doing the pre-work. The thing is that your manager, your boss, your CEO could actually, if it's the right time and the right opportunity, could be your number one champion. Could say, wow, this would be a great development opportunity for you. You would go out and get some additional skills. You'd bring those skills back to the company. You'd bring great relationships back to the company. This is a way for me to continue to promote you because there are no more jobs left to promote you into. Like, yeah, let's work on this together. It would be a feather in your cap and in mine and in the company's because the timing is right. Let's do this together strategically to get on a board. So again, I think people need to stop and think before they plunge right in.
Paula Edgar: So I knew this conversation was going to go by really quickly. But before we close, I want to ask you this. So we were talking about people wanting to get on the board, but given that you've placed people and you've seen people who've gotten on boards, once someone has gotten their first board role, how should they be thinking about protecting and strengthening their personal brand during that first year or 30, 60, 90 and that beginning time? What are some actions that help them to build credibility quickly?
Sonya Olds Som: So it's interesting. Once standing outside of the club, whatever the club is, the CEO club, the GC club, the CFO club, it was almost impossible to break into the club because you've never done it before. People want to hire people who've already done it. Same thing with getting your first board role. So people spend five years, 10 years from the time they form the intention to the time that they finally break into the club.
The funny thing is, once you get in the club, once you get behind the velvet ropes, now everybody wants you in the club. The announcement goes out. I've seen the announcement go out that somebody got on a board or somebody got a particular role. Now all of a sudden, they're like, "Oh, someone else has taken the risk. Now I'm aware of who this person is. Someone else has taken the risk of admitting this person to the club. Now I'm going to try to get this person to the club."
So I've seen people go from zero boards in five, 10 years to within 18 months, they're now on three boards, right? So it can happen really fast once the dominoes finally start to fall. Now, if you're still in a day job, again, you're usually only going to be allowed to be on one outside board. So you want to be very intentional if that is the board you want to spend that time on because you only get the one. Then the people who are moving into more of that day job retirement mode may be able to take on additional boards.
But I think it's important to always be very thoughtful, especially in that first year. Get to know this organization. Get to know these people. Do your homework. Do your reading. Have the coffees and the drinks and the lunches. Really immerse yourself and make sure you really understand. You should definitely start contributing right away. Nobody wants to sit in the back of the room for a year. "Why is she even here?" But you also want to be measured in terms of making sure that you're learning, having the one-on-one conversations, that you're doing the homework, that you're getting immersed so that over time you are able to be even increasingly valuable in this space.
So I think, again, we're always rushing to the next thing, but don't be afraid to say, I'm going to sit with this for a minute and really, really immerse myself in this and make sure I'm adding full value to this before I start saying, "And now put me in all the other ones." Especially again, if you're still in a day job, you still have little kids at home or whatever else the thing is, just remember that you want to be intentional because you want to be really good at this, right? And you want to be very, very thoughtful about that because it's a lot of additional time and risk and investment. It can be a wonderful thing to add to your life if the time is right and the opportunity is right.
Paula Edgar: Well, for my final piece, I know that because every time we do this Paula-Sonya show, there are a lot of people who want to reach out to you. So I want to remind everybody that usually the way recruiters work is they are engaged by an organization. So they work for the organizations who are looking for a board, they're looking for a board member, or we're looking for a role to be filled. They do not work for the individual, right? And so it's important to know that dynamic when you're managing expectations about how a recruiter can work with you. I'm very protective of Sonya when it comes to that because most folks don't really understand that trajectory.
So I want to say that because you might be like, "Oh, I got to reach out to Sonya." That may be very well. You might want to connect with her on LinkedIn to stay in that sphere, but understand that there needs to be a search first for them to be able to activate, to put you or whomever it may be into an opportunity. So be thoughtful, be additive, be connective, and don't be pushy when you're reaching out to recruiters. And always respond. Even if you are not interested, a good response helps you to stay in that sphere, even if you're not ready for something. Always a referral to somebody else is a helpful thing to be able to share with a recruiter who reaches out to you.
With that, Sonya, do you have any last words you want to share with the folks before we close today?
Sonya Olds Som: Well, Paula, it's just a pleasure as always. Again, folks should always feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn to remember who I know. I've been doing this a long time, and looking through my LinkedIn, I'm not a rocket scientist. I'm looking for candidates and I'm like, "Oh, I need somebody who can do X. I'm going to search my LinkedIn connections to see who does X."
Certainly you can always reach out to me, and I can make sure you have instructions on how you can get your materials in our firm's database so that we can find you when we're looking for you, when someone has paid us to do a search. Hey, I wouldn't be good at my job if I didn't say, if you are an organization that would like to hire me to do a search, a GC search, an executive search, a board search, please. Because people are like, oh, I'm looking for a job. It's like, yes, I too am looking for a job. I will not have any jobs to put you in if somebody does not pay me to conduct these searches. That's how we all sort of help each other get along in this game.
Paula Edgar: One hundred percent. Finally, before we close, we want to just let you all know that for those of you who are watching us, we're both wearing one of our favorite designers, Dressed in Joy, because I feel joy when I connect with my friend, Sonya. I hope that you have joy hearing all of her fantastic, fantastic content. And do support the organizations that she mentioned, Girls Inc. of Chicago and the American Writers Museum in Chicago as well, and we'll put all the links inside the show notes.
Sonya, it's always a pleasure to have you on the podcast. You're always welcome back whenever you would like to. I know this conversation is going to change lives or make people at least do better, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they respond to it. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Sonya Olds Som: Thank you, Paula. Dressed in Joy. Joy to the world. Happy holidays, everybody.
Paula Edgar: Bye, y'all.
Sonya Olds Som: Bye.
Paula Edgar: That's it for this episode. I appreciate you hanging out with me on Branding Room Only. Now, please do me a quick favor: head over to ratethispodcast.com/branding so more people can join this conversation. And make sure to stop by at paulaedgar.com/events to see what's next. Whether I'm live, online, or in person, I'd love to see you there. See you next time in the Branding Room. And until then, stand tall, shine bright, and always stand by your brand.
